Chris,
As i remember, you got a life prison for your logical crimes against reason,
now, as a repeater, you hardly ever would be paroled for another logical
wrongdoings: taking a statement out of the context, misplacing types of
reality and kinds of truths, be inconsistent in reasoning, and imposing your
confused interpretations on whatever you can't grasp. (01)
Repeat again, there is Reality (Being, Existence, the Universe, Cosmos) and
reality, the World and world. (02)
The World is the totality of all existences, everything that exists, changes
and relates, what the science is seeking to represent in the most consistent
and comprehensive ways as a set of fundamental truths. The second one is
your personal world or subjective reality, encompassing all your mental
mess-up (disjointed thoughts, disordered ideas, illogical conceptualizations
and funny images, idiosyncratic truths and beliefs) guiding your individual
behaviour, of what no science is much interested. While doing a long term,
you personal reality may loose any contact with Reality, imagining itself as
the only one true reality, then it is a mental case. (03)
Read my message again, thinking of what Avril timely mentioned: ''But it is
not hard to assume any random hypothesis and spin out a long string of
conclusions.'' Aristotle, Metaphysics, book 14, chapter 3. (04)
Again, there is one world in the world, and there is ultimately one true
representation of this great entity, to which humans try to achieve by means
of our personal realities, creating an infinite multitude of hypotheses,
ideas, models, theories, conceptualizations as well as automated tools and
machines.
Take care,
Azamat Abdoullaev (05)
> Azamat,
>
> That statement is the worst possible nonsequitur:
>
> AA> Reality is one as its true representation. Otherwise,
> > you will have just defective systems with ''different
> > conceptualizations''.
>
> I'll accept the point that reality is one, but if we have
> learned anything over the past several millennia, it is that
> no finite mind can ever have an absolutely true representation
> of everything -- or even of any significant part.
>
> Science is the search for truth, but the best it can ever do
> is to give us better and better approximations. And *every*
> other field is in much, much worse shape than science.
>
> The worst evils in all history have been committed by people
> who thought that they had the *ONE TRUE TRUTH* and that it
> was their *DUTY* to inflict their conceptualization of the
> *TRUTH* on everybody else.
>
> The 20th century was filled with disasters caused by people
> trying to ram their conception of the truth down other people's
> throats. And the 21st is starting off on an even worse footing.
>
> Whenever anybody thinks he or she has absolute truth in his
> or her hands, you have found a truly depraved being who would
> inflict untold evil upon the world -- unless stopped.
>
> I won't mention any, but I'm sure we can all find examples.
>
> John (06)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Menzel" <cmenzel@xxxxxxxx>
To: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Model or Reality (07)
> On Aug 8, 2007, at 2:22 PM, Azamat Abdoullaev wrote:
>> There is a sorrowful example of my thesis; continue you emotional
>> statements:
>
> Good grief, John's statements weren't emotional at all. The
> following in particular is empirically verifiable:
>
>>> The 20th century was filled with disasters caused by people trying to
>>> ram their conception of the truth down other people's throats.
>>> And the
>>> 21st is starting off on an even worse footing.''
>>
>> All these devastations and destructions arose from and will arise
>> only from
>> ''different conceptualizations''.
>
> Rubbish. The mere existence of different conceptualizations hasn't
> in itself any power for good or ill; if anything, it indicates a
> healthy community in which competing ideas are allowed flourish. A
> mixture of conceptualizations becomes volatile only when combined
> with an unshakable belief on the part of the devotees of one or more
> of the conceptualizations that (i) theirs mirrors the One True
> Reality and (ii) others must be made to believe the same way or be
> marginalized or destroyed.
>
> It is one of the creepier aspects of human psychology that (i) seems
> to engender (ii). So when I encounter a True Believer I just smile,
> nod, and slowly back away...
>
> -chris
John, (08)
It might be surprising for you, but your ethical speculations just confirm
my thesis below: ''you will have just defective systems with ''different
conceptualizations''. The worst evils have been caused by defective theories
(partial conceptualizations), as beliefs guiding human behavior and social
actions. Different political theories come from lacking real social
knowledge: absolutism, autocracy, despotism, communism, capitalism, fascism,
communism, collectivism, conservatism, radicalism, extremism, elitism,
democracy, etc. Different beliefs are again a result of lacking real
knowledge about the world: all sorts of doctrines (isms), religious faiths,
public opinions, superstitions, particular thoughts and values. You can
extend this line of reasoning to other issues: partial mental attitudes,
social injustices, immoralities, etc.
There is a sorrowful example of my thesis; continue you emotional
statements:
''The 20th century was filled with disasters caused by people > trying to
ram their conception of the truth down other people's > throats. And the
21st is starting off on an even worse footing.''
All these devastations and destructions arose from and will arise only from
''different conceptualizations''. Take the war in Iraq, it is a partial
truth and conceptualization, or a political stupidity, a serious want of
insight into the situation, a bad lack of intelligence and want of common
knowledge about real states of affairs in the world, what came up as a
reason of the social evil bringing harms and destructions and misfortunes to
many human lives. (09)
To sum up:
The idea of a single theory of anything (one comprehensive true
representation of things in the world) has been always to the forefront of
best human minds and central to classic ontology, since here lies all the
best social outlooks and prospects and hopes of humanity. Partial
conceptualizations and individual truths are causes of pain, injuries and
losses, the evil dangers to intelligent humanity and machines. (010)
Azamat (011)
----- Original Message -----
From: "John F. Sowa" <sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Model or Reality
>
>
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