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Re: [ontolog-forum] [SPAM] Re: Terminology Question concerningWeb Archit

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: leo@xxxxxx
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 19:45:53 +0600 (YEKST)
Message-id: <3112.10.0.2.224.1185111953.mgnwebinterface@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Dear Matthew,
My opinion is the same as your's and Azamat's . Suppose only it will be
better  to look at these differences in ontologies from the Pragmatism
point of view as to different Umwelts -
http://www.ento.vt.edu/~sharov/biosem/txt/umwelt.html .
Suppose the modern ITCs give new possibilities "to colleborate" different
Umwlts in the ontologies area.    (01)

Leonid    (02)

> Dear Azamat and others,
>
> I agree with Azamat - there is a single universal ontology.
> (Just because I believe there is a single reality).
>
> Unfortunately, I can see there are a lot of other ontologies
> too, and it seems hard to determine which is the right one
> (and I doubt it is available to be discerned yet).
>
> Regards
>
> Matthew West
> Reference Data Architecture and Standards Manager
> Shell International Petroleum Company Limited
> Registered in England and Wales
> Registered number: 621148
> Registered office: Shell Centre, London SE1 7NA, United Kingdom
>
> Tel: +44 20 7934 4490 Mobile: +44 7796 336538
> Email: matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx
> http://www.shell.com
> http://www.matthew-west.org.uk/
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Azamat
>> Sent: 21 July 2007 23:02
>> To: [ontolog-forum]
>> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Terminology Question concerningWeb
>> Architecture and LinkedData
>>
>>
>>  Patrick Durusau wrote: I am sure Azamat will formulate his
>> own response but
>> I can answer for
>>  myself since I share the opinion that there is no "universal
>> ontology."
>>
>> Dear Patrick,
>> Let me just ensure you that there is a ''universal
>> ontology'', '' global
>> ontology'', '' master ontology'', or '' standard ontology'', as a
>> comprehensive consistent world model.
>> Otherwise, no Semantic Web, no artificial intelligent systems, etc.
>> Azamat
>> http://www.eis.com.cy
>>
>>
>> Patrick
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Patrick Durusau" <patrick@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 12:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Terminology Question concerning Web
>> Architecture and LinkedData
>>
>>
>> > Randall,
>> >
>> > Randall R Schulz wrote:
>> >> On Saturday 21 July 2007 12:59, Azamat wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Rarely have i seen such obtusness. Pat has said many interesting
>> >>> things, but this statement reflects the whole point of
>> the Semantic
>> >>> Web. No Real Meanings, no Semantic Web, or  no  Universal
>> Ontology,
>> >>> no Intelligent Web. That's it.
>> >>>
>> >>> Azamat
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> If this is the statement it seems to be, namely one of complete
>> >> pessimism about the entire Semantic Web endeavor (and
>> apparently, any
>> >> form of computational intelligence), what motivates your
>> participation
>> >> in this forum?
>> >>
>> >>
>> > I am sure Azamat will formulate his own response but I can
>> answer for
>> > myself since I share the opinion that there is no
>> "universal ontology."
>> >
>> > First, I don't think belief in a universal ontology has
>> anything to do
>> > with "computational intelligence." It certainly is irrelevant to any
>> > claims of human intelligence, the possessors of which have been
>> > demonstrated to believe in any number of ontologies, perhaps even
>> > contradictory ones.
>> >
>> > Second, and more pragmatically, if a client finds that use
>> of "Semantic
>> > Web" technologies provides a useful result for whatever purpose they
>> > have in mind, what is their (or my) belief in a universal
>> ontology have
>> > to do with it? Or the connection of such a universal
>> ontology to "real"
>> > meaning? Interesting questions for a coffee shop discussion but has
>> > little to do with the results that motivate clients to pay
>> for services.
>> >
>> > I say all that because the topic maps community has spent
>> years (not as
>> > many as the ontology community) hand wringing over the
>> "big" issues when
>> > the real questions that needed answering were what result
>> does the use
>> > of topic maps enable that isn't otherwise available and how
>> does than
>> > answer the needs of user X?
>> >
>> > Granted, I take that position because I think meaning is in
>> the eyes of
>> > the user (cf. reader response criticism and Stanley Fish) but I also
>> > suspect that pragmatically speaking, the question that any semantic
>> > technology has to answer is of what use is it to the user
>> in question?
>> > It's formal correctness and answering the "big" questions
>> won't save a
>> > technology that has no real payoff for users.
>> >
>> > I participate because I wanted to learn the terminology and thinking
>> > that underlies current ontology efforts. Whether those efforts are
>> > "true" in some absolute sense of the world isn't a question
>> that I worry
>> > about. How those efforts may or may not have benefits for users,
>> > however, is a question that concerns me.
>> >
>> > Hope you are having a great day!
>> >
>> > Patrick
>> >
>> >> Randall Schulz
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Patrick Durusau
>> > patrick@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Chair, V1 - US TAG to JTC 1/SC 34
>> > Acting Convener, JTC 1/SC 34/WG 3 (Topic Maps)
>> > Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps)
>> > Co-Editor, OpenDocument Format (OASIS, ISO/IEC 26300)
>> >
>> >
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>
>
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>
>    (03)



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