If the original statement was framed within a domain specific ontology such
as an HR department at a company that hires only humans, the statement as
written by John is fine IMO. I inferred nothing more that all employees are
persons. Regardless of the definitions of employee and person, the statement
is true. What can be argued is that person and employee are terms that have
limitations however as John noted, that can be fixed by defining such. (01)
I do not see why this is causing so much discussion. (02)
Duane (03)
On 3/18/07 12:45 PM, "Chris Partridge" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: (04)
> John,
>
> If you look at some of the standard textbooks on data modelling you will
> find that:
>
> a) They recognise that some systems fudged the distinction between employee
> and role (as you note)
> b) that it is not a good idea to do it, and
> c) offer their own way of modelling this.
>
> My experience with legacy systems re-engineering is that not all (or even
> many modern) systems make this mistake. But am sure my sample is not
> representative.
>
> See (for example),
> Data Model Patterns: Conventions of Thought by David C. Hay
> http://www.amazon.com/Data-Model-Patterns-Conventions-Thought/dp/0932633293/
> ref=pd_bbs_2/002-8927839-5907206?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174246335&sr=8-2
>
> The Data Model Resource Book, Vol. 1: A Library of Universal Data Models for
> All Enterprises by Len Silverston
> http://www.amazon.com/Data-Model-Resource-Book-Vol/dp/0471380237/ref=sr_1_1/
> 002-8927839-5907206?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174246404&sr=1-1
>
> (As an aside, I seem to recall Matthew West's 'High Quality Data Models
> paper' notes this - or something similar as a common modelling error -
> Matthew can confirm whether this is the case.)
>
> To return to an old topic: one can regard employee as a role or a temporal
> stage of a person - depending upon your 3D/4D inclinations. A description of
> the 4D approach is in my book.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Business-Objects-Re-Engineering-Computer-Professional/
> dp/075062082X/ref=sr_1_1/002-8927839-5907206?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174246688&
> sr=1-1
>
> Regards,
> Chris
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John F. Sowa
> Sent: 18 March 2007 14:27
> To: [ontolog-forum]
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Common Logic Controlled English (CLCE)
>
> Peter,
>
> That's the way most businesses handle their personnel:
>
>> Since when is an "employee" a sub-type of "person"?!
>
> However, one of the major mining companies used mules
> to pull ore out of the mines. (They didn't want to use
> anything that might create sparks that could trigger
> an explosion if there were any stray gasses around.)
>
> When they computerized their system, they assigned
> employee numbers to the mules. For that company, you
> could generalize the ontology in either of two ways:
>
> 1. Assume that Employee is a subtype of Animal.
>
> 2. Assume that Person could include nonhuman animals.
>
> But in any case, whenever you say X is a subtype of Y,
> you mean "every X is a Y." That is all it says.
>
> John
>
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