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Re: [uos-convene] UOS Agenda and Logistical Details

To: Upper Ontology Summit convention <uos-convene@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Adam Pease <apease@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:31:00 -0800
Message-id: <6.2.3.4.2.20060310073045.032ad500@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Doug,
   Exactly right.    (01)

Adam    (02)

At 06:43 AM 3/10/2006, Doug Lenat wrote:
>I concur with Bill's position and Adam's earlier statement.    I was surprised
>to see the vendor parade on the Wed. agenda, but since I hadn't helped in an
>integral way with this meeting, all along, I didn't feel I should speak up.
>
>Regarding Adan's statement, Peter, when you said you didn't understand
>why the 3 of us UO-builders might want/need to talk "to each other", it
>seemed to me that you might be missing Adam's point (well, if it's the same
>point I would have made): it isn't that the 3 of us need to talk with
>each other, nor with the public or the media, so much as with the rest
>of you, this group.  I.e., we've got decades of actual experiences doing this
>that we can share with you.  Many of you (academics and vendors alike)
>are new to this field, and we can tell you some of the lessons we learned
>the hard way, what surprised us (e.g., which "details" end up being critical
>and which "crucial issues" end up not being critical after all), what these
>existing ontologies ARE (as resources for the community) in at least
>more than several seconds' detail, etc.
>
>Is that what you were getting at, Adam?
>
>--Doug
>
>
>John F. Sowa wrote:
>>I support Bill Andersen's position.
>>
>>John Sowa
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>An open letter to the UOS organizers and all 
>>key participants.  Please read the whole thing.
>>
>>     .bill
>>
>>On Mar 9, 2006, at 19:24 , Adam Pease wrote:
>>
>> > Peter,
>> >   That's good to hear.  My suggestion, with 
>> all respect to Mills, would be to have Doug, 
>> Nicola and myself each present our views for 
>> 1/2 hour each from 9am to 10:30am.  That's 
>> still quite limited, but might give the group 
>> at least some of the groundwork needed to make 
>> progress on an upper ontology summit.
>>
>>Let me amplify Adam's comments:
>>
>>For this proceeding to be taken seriously, 
>>there needs to be a clear focus, clear goals, 
>>and ample time given to discuss some very 
>>difficult topics.  All three are lacking from 
>>the proposed agenda.  I completely agree with 
>>Adam on his earlier points about lack of proper 
>>focus.  Now, let me move on to another 
>>topic.  Upon reading Adam's post I decided to look at the agenda myself:
>>
>>
>><http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UpperOntologySummit/UosApplicationDialogMeeting_2006_03_15>http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UpperOntologySummit/UosApplicationDialogMeeting_2006_03_15
> 
>>
>>
>>I discovered that Wednesday morning's agenda is 
>>a platform for commercial vendors of "ontology" 
>>tools to talk about and demonstrate their 
>>products and/or positions.  This is a 
>>completely inappropriate activity to be mixed 
>>in with a scientific discussion of upper 
>>ontology and an attempt at reconciliation of 
>>UOs as engineering efforts.  I had absolutely 
>>no idea such an activity was planned.  Had I 
>>known I would have protested.  Who is the 
>>audience for this?  Why where these particular 
>>parties selected?  Who selected them?  Is the 
>>press invited?  What statements have been 
>>prepared to give to the press regarding these commercial interests?
>>
>>We all deserve answers to these questions.
>>
>>I have given freely of my valuable time to help 
>>shape the wording and agenda for the summit.  I 
>>work very hard to keep my life as an academic 
>>researcher in this area separate from my 
>>interest in my company.   Now I find out that 
>>my efforts and name and reputation and even 
>>that of my company are being used in part to 
>>foster the commercial interests of those in 
>>competition with us?  This is an absolutely unheard of outrage!!!!!
>>
>>I can't speak for Adam or for Doug Lenat, but 
>>If you're going to have demos, then why not 
>>include demos of Ontology Works IODE, Cyc, and 
>>Sigma – the most mature products in existence 
>>that have REAL upper ontologies in 
>>them.  Either open it up to anyone with an 
>>actual ULO-based product, or kill the 
>>commercial content altogether.  I suggest 
>>killing the commercial content so we can stick 
>>to the science and engineering.  So...
>>
>>Can any of you explain any of this???
>>
>>If not, then I will formally (and *very* 
>>publicly) withdraw my personal support and that 
>>of my company for the UOS effort.  Moreover, I 
>>will in the strongest possible terms urge my 
>>commercial, academic, and government colleagues to do the same.
>>
>>     .bill
>>
>>Bill Andersen 
>>(<mailto:andersen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>andersen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
>>Chief Scientist
>>Ontology Works, Inc. (<http://www.ontologyworks.com>www.ontologyworks.com)
>>3600 O'Donnell Street, Suite 600
>>Baltimore, MD 21224
>>Office: 410-675-1201
>>Cell: 443-858-6444
>>
>>
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>>    (03)

----------------------------
Adam Pease
http://www.ontologyportal.org - Free ontologies and tools    (04)


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