See my comments below. (01)
On Sat, 10 Apr 2010, Cameron Ross wrote: (02)
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Ron Wheeler <rwheeler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> On 10/04/2010 2:29 PM, Peter Yim wrote:
> >> [RonW] Horribly bureaucratic process. No way this will be able
> >> to get any following among application developers. ...
> >>
> > [ppy] I guess it depends on the kind of ontology submission
> one has in mind?
> >
> > I trust those who were involved in the earlier discussion
> (either OOR
> > or SIO) were thinking of artifacts like OpenCYC, PSL, BFO,
> COSMO,
> > DOLCE, SUMO and the like (and to weed out the counter examples
> that
> > Barry Smith usually cites.)
> >
> > ISO is a terribly bureaucratic process too!
> >
> > Once again, if the conversation (like this one) addresses the
> broader
> > scope of OOR (and not just SIO implementation issues, please
> use the
> > [oor-forum] list (rather than [sio-dev]) for the discussion. I
> am
> > going to forward this thread to [oor-forum], kindly pick it up
> from
> >
>
> This is strictly SIO implementation not ontology.
> It is in reference to the Use Cases that are being suggested as
> relevent
> to the SIO project.
> It belongs here.
>
>
> This is an area of overlap between OOR and SIO. The Uses Cases
> we've been referring to are for OOR, but it is clearly SIO as well.
>
> > there.
> >
> > ... by the way, Ron, why 'application developers' rather than
> > 'ontology developers' (isn't the latter what OOR is for)?
> >
> >
> Building ontologies is a fine thing but I am coming at the discussion
> from the point of view of someone who would actually use ontologies to
> build something - an application that incorporates a set of ontologies
> to provide the logic with some set of facts.
> If the OOR is only to support ontology developers, then it is at best
> an
> academic exercise and the real ontology work will move elsewhere.
> It has to help application developers find the ontologies that they
> need
> and to understand which ones can be used together.
>
> This is the point I've been trying to make regarding use cases other
> than those related to CRUDing ontologies. That is, the perspective
> of one who will use the OOR as a source of ontologies for actual
> applications. As Peter has pointed out, the actor for these uses
> cases will be the Application Developer and NOT the Ontology
> Developer. So to restate my question once again, should the
> OOR initiative create use cases for the Application Developer? (03)
Matt Hettinger made a similar plea at the recent OOR Use Cases meeting.
See http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2010_04_01
Matt said that he will be proposing some use cases. (04)
> Maybe Ontology Developer use cases belong with OOR and
> Application Developer use cases belong with SIO? (05)
I think that application-oriented use cases are appropriate for the OOR.
If you or anyone else has some suggestions for such use cases, please post
them to the oor mailing list. (06)
-- Ken (07)
>
> > Thanks& regards. =ppy
> > --
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Ron Wheeler
> > <rwheeler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> On 09/04/2010 2:52 PM, kenb wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, 6 Apr 2010, Cameron Ross wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks Todd.
> >>>>
> >>>> The use cases thus far describe Create, Retrieve, Update and
> Delete
> >>>> (CRUD) functionality that is typical of a repository. I'm
> looking for
> >>>> use cases that correspond to the eventual end uses of
> onologies
> >>>> residing within the repository. For example, the trigger
> for the
> >>>> "Find Ontology" use case is "Need for an ontology". What
> are the use
> >>>> cases that motivate the need for an ontology. Although such
> use cases
> >>>> may not be required for the system level implementation of
> the
> >>>> repository, I believe they are essential to develop an
> understanding
> >>>> of the types of problems that an ontology repository will
> help to solve.
> >>>>
> >>>> I guess I'm struggling to understand the value of ontology
> >>>> repositories beyond their ability to facilitate the
> development and
> >>>> sharing of ontologies. If there isn't any value beyond
> this, then
> >>>> what is the need for an "online" repository. Wouldn't a
> system that
> >>>> allows for the sharing and collaborative development of
> static
> >>>> ontology artifacs (e.g. files) suffice? SourceForge comes
> to mind.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> The OOR use cases consider workflows/processes such as
> reviewing, mapping,
> >>> composing, etc. The use cases also distinguish the roles
> (actors) that
> >>> are involved in these processes. IMHO, these go significantly
> beyond CRUD
> >>> functionality.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Perhaps this a naive view, or it has been discussed
> previously. If
> >>>> so, some links would be much appreciated.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> See the OOR use case descriptions at
> >>>
> http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OOR/OOR-Use-Cases/oor-usecase.xml
> and
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Horribly bureaucratic process. No way this will be able to get
> any
> >> following among application developers.
> >> The only criteria for submitting an ontology to a central
> repository
> >> should be some claim on the namespace.
> >> Our company owns "com.artifact-software" and I should be able
> to submit
> >> any ontology that I want as long as I supply the minimal
> metadata to
> >> permit the OOR to index it.
> >> If people like the license that I give and can merge the
> ontology with
> >> the rest of their set, then they will use it.
> >> Adding a bunch of gatekeepers is only going to make the
> marketplace go
> >> elsewhere.
> >>
> >>> the main OOR use cases page at
> >>>
> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OpenOntologyRepository_UseCases
> >>>
> >>> -- Ken
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Cameron.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Kojeware Corporation
> >>>>
> >>>> On Apr 6, 2010, at 12:07 PM, Todd J
> Schneider<todd.schneider@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Ron, Cameron,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The OOR team does have high-level use cases addressing
> different
> >>>>> roles of OOR users. Among them are Developer and [general]
> User.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> See
> >>>>> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?
> >>>>> OpenOntologyRepository_UseCases
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Feel free to extend or add to the existing use cases.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Todd
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From:
> >>>>> Ron Wheeler<rwheeler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> To:
> >>>>> "[sio-dev] discussion"<sio-dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> Date:
> >>>>> 04/06/2010 10:54 AM
> >>>>> Subject:
> >>>>> Re: [sio-dev] Fwd: [ontolog-forum] Sharing and Integrating
> >>>>> Ontologies
> >>>>> Sent by:
> >>>>> sio-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Does anyone have a written use case for what an ontologist
> would
> >>>>> want us
> >>>>> to produce?
> >>>>> What are the problems he/she should be trying to solve when
> they
> >>>>> contemplate selecting one of our artifacts?
> >>>>> How will our artifacts interface with the rest of the
> solutions set?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Are we in a position to write the introductory chapter of
> the user
> >>>>> documentation?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Do we have a place on the wiki where these ideas can be
> developed?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ron
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Rick Murphy wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 7:32 AM, John F.
> Sowa<sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>> <mailto:sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> John Bateman and his group at Bremen put together a
> variety of free
> >>>>>>>> and open source tools and integrated them with their
> methodology.
> >>>>>>>> One of the most important is HeTS (Heterogeneous Tool
> System),
> >>>>>>>> which can translate from one logic to another while
> preserving
> >>>>>>>> the semantics:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> I spent most of last Winter investigating HETs, CASL,
> Haskell and
> >>>>>> Isabelle. At this point I have a modest capacity to engage
> in
> >>>>>> modeling
> >>>>>> and coding with this tool suite.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I look forward to the discussion !
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Rick
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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> --
> Kojeware Corporation
>
> (08)
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