Re: [sio-dev] Fwd: [ontolog-forum] Sharing and Integrating Ontologies

[Cameron Ross <cross@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Ron Wheeler <rwheeler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 10/04/2010 2:29 PM, Peter Yim wrote:
>> [RonW] Horribly bureaucratic process. No way this will be able
>> to get any following among application developers. ...
>>
> [ppy]  I guess it depends on the kind of ontology submission one has in mind?
>
> I trust those who were involved in the earlier discussion (either OOR
> or SIO) were thinking of artifacts like OpenCYC, PSL, BFO, COSMO,
> DOLCE, SUMO and the like (and to weed out the counter examples that
> Barry Smith usually cites.)
>
> ISO is a terribly bureaucratic process too!
>
> Once again, if the conversation (like this one) addresses the broader
> scope of OOR (and not just SIO implementation issues, please use the
> [oor-forum] list (rather than [sio-dev]) for the discussion. I am
> going to forward this thread to [oor-forum], kindly pick it up from
>

This is strictly SIO implementation not ontology.
It is in reference to the Use Cases that are being suggested as relevent
to the SIO project.
It belongs here.

This is an area of overlap between OOR and SIO.  The Uses Cases

we've been referring to are for OOR, but it is clearly SIO as well.

 

> there.
>
> ... by the way, Ron, why 'application developers' rather than
> 'ontology developers' (isn't the latter what OOR is for)?
>
>

Building ontologies  is a fine thing but I am coming at the discussion
from the point of view of someone who would actually use ontologies to
build something - an application that incorporates a set of ontologies
to provide the logic with some set of facts.
If the OOR is only to support ontology developers, then it is at best an
academic exercise and the real ontology work will move elsewhere.
It has to help application developers find the ontologies that they need
and to understand which ones can be used together.

This is the point I've been trying to make regarding use cases other

than those related to CRUDing ontologies.  That is, the perspective

of one who will use the OOR as a source of ontologies for actual

applications.  As Peter has pointed out, the actor  for these uses

cases will be the Application Developer and NOT the Ontology

Developer.  So to restate my question once again, should the 

OOR initiative create use cases for the Application Developer?

Maybe Ontology Developer use cases belong with OOR and

Application Developer use cases belong with SIO? 

> Thanks&  regards.  =ppy
> --
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Ron Wheeler
> <rwheeler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
>
>> On 09/04/2010 2:52 PM, kenb wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 6 Apr 2010, Cameron Ross wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks Todd.
>>>>
>>>> The use cases thus far describe Create, Retrieve, Update and Delete
>>>> (CRUD) functionality that is typical of a repository.  I'm looking for
>>>> use cases that correspond to the eventual end uses of onologies
>>>> residing within the repository.  For example, the trigger for the
>>>> "Find Ontology" use case is "Need for an ontology".  What are the use
>>>> cases that motivate the need for an ontology.  Although such use cases
>>>> may not be required for the system level implementation of the
>>>> repository, I believe they are essential to develop an understanding
>>>> of the types of problems that an ontology repository will help to solve.
>>>>
>>>> I guess I'm struggling to understand the value of ontology
>>>> repositories beyond their ability to facilitate the development and
>>>> sharing of ontologies.  If there isn't any value beyond this, then
>>>> what is the need for an "online" repository.  Wouldn't a system that
>>>> allows for the sharing and collaborative development of static
>>>> ontology artifacs (e.g. files) suffice?  SourceForge comes to mind.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The OOR use cases consider workflows/processes such as reviewing, mapping,
>>> composing, etc.  The use cases also distinguish the roles (actors) that
>>> are involved in these processes. IMHO, these go significantly beyond CRUD
>>> functionality.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Perhaps this a naive view, or it has been discussed previously.  If
>>>> so, some links would be much appreciated.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> See the OOR use case descriptions at
>>> http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OOR/OOR-Use-Cases/oor-usecase.xml and
>>>
>>>
>> Horribly bureaucratic process. No way this will be able to get any
>> following among application developers.
>> The only criteria for submitting an ontology to a central repository
>> should be some claim on the namespace.
>> Our company owns "com.artifact-software" and I should be able to submit
>> any ontology that I want as long as I supply the minimal metadata to
>> permit the OOR to index it.
>> If people like the license that I give and can merge the ontology with
>> the rest of their set, then they will use it.
>> Adding a bunch of gatekeepers is only going to make the marketplace go
>> elsewhere.
>>
>>> the main OOR use cases page at
>>> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OpenOntologyRepository_UseCases
>>>
>>> -- Ken
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Cameron.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kojeware Corporation
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 6, 2010, at 12:07 PM, Todd J Schneider<todd.schneider@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Ron, Cameron,
>>>>>
>>>>> The OOR team does have high-level use cases addressing different
>>>>> roles of OOR users. Among them are Developer and [general] User.
>>>>>
>>>>> See
>>>>> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?
>>>>> OpenOntologyRepository_UseCases
>>>>>
>>>>> Feel free to extend or add to the existing use cases.
>>>>>
>>>>> Todd
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From:
>>>>> Ron Wheeler<rwheeler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To:
>>>>> "[sio-dev] discussion"<sio-dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Date:
>>>>> 04/06/2010 10:54 AM
>>>>> Subject:
>>>>> Re: [sio-dev] Fwd: [ontolog-forum] Sharing and  Integrating
>>>>> Ontologies
>>>>> Sent by:
>>>>> sio-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone have a written use case for what an ontologist would
>>>>> want us
>>>>> to produce?
>>>>> What are the problems he/she should be trying to solve when they
>>>>> contemplate selecting one of our artifacts?
>>>>> How will our artifacts interface with the rest of the solutions set?
>>>>>
>>>>> Are we in a position to write the introductory chapter of the user
>>>>> documentation?
>>>>>
>>>>> Do we have a place on the wiki where these ideas can be developed?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ron
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rick Murphy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 7:32 AM, John F. Sowa<sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> <mailto:sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx>>    wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John Bateman and his group at Bremen put together a variety of free
>>>>>>>> and open source tools and integrated them with their methodology.
>>>>>>>> One of the most important is HeTS (Heterogeneous Tool System),
>>>>>>>> which can translate from one logic to another while preserving
>>>>>>>> the semantics:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I spent most of last Winter investigating HETs, CASL, Haskell and
>>>>>> Isabelle. At this point I have a modest capacity to engage in
>>>>>> modeling
>>>>>> and coding with this tool suite.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I look forward to the discussion !
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rick
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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-- 
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