My answers are more or less the same as Pat’s however I have been trying to think about how a basic model would work
Quantity
Volume
Length
Time
Pressure
Mass
Speed
Oscillation
All seem essential elements to consider. Additionally, mereotopology and aggregate/composite relationships seem to be paramount to the equation.
Looking at these ingredients, there are dependencies on these that can be revealed via examining a higher level of conceptualization. I also noted that scoping such an ontology to terrestrial laws would be far easier since gravitational mass is the mass of an object measured using the effect of a gravitational field on the object. While fairly constant on a spherical plane on our planet, it’s effects diminish in a logarithmic relationship with physical distance to the earth and velocity.
This lead me to the conclusion that the entire problem is far more difficult than it first appeared on the surface (pun intended).
Energy is also an interesting unit of measure. Energy is used to calculate several units of measure in different contexts. Audio (Watts – RMS), electromagnetic, thermal, potential, chemical etc.... Without going into the nuances, there are a plethora of axioms and laws covering this.
This all lead me back to the initial perceived problem – a lack of alignment at a higher level for all taxonomies or weights and measures including notes where existing dimensions to the semantics of units were not considering the full spectrum of the laws of physics (ignoring quantum mechanics for now).
Taxonomy A – gallons, pints, feet, inches, miles per hour, furlongs per fortnight, knots, tons...
Taxonomy B – centimeters, litres, metres, kilometers per hour...
Length itself would be easy but speed gets far more nasty. Length is a linear relationships between two points. Speed is much more difficult because it is always relative to something. Einstein’s law of relativity really only scratches the surface and the question becomes “what is the context?” implying “who is the observer?”. There is a whole field of science (Lorentz transformations) dedicated to this idea. Here is a quote on the matter:
“In physics, the Lorentz transformation converts between two different observers' measurements of space and time, where one observer is in uniform (non-accelerating) motion with respect to the other. In classical physics (Galilean relativity), the only conversion believed necessary was x' = x - vt, describing how the origin of one observer's coordinate system slides through space with respect to the other's, at speed v and along the x-axis of each frame. According to special relativity, this is only a good approximation at much smaller speeds than the speed of light, and in general the result is not just an offsetting of the x coordinates; lengths and times are distorted as well.”
Mass must include the effects of gravity and velocity in order to be meaningful, no?
Anyways, this entire thought process overwhelmed me when I realized it might be a pandora’s box. I would like to entertain discussion on scoping a units and measurements ontology to a problem statement and work programme that is plausible.
Duane
On 5/29/09 8:34 AM, "Pat Hayes" <phayes@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On May 28, 2009, at 9:38 PM, Peter Yim wrote:
> Folks,
>
> We are now two weeks from Thu 2009.06.11 ... and time to take
> inventory again.
>
> I am writing to ping everyone, one more time, to find out:
>
> 1. who is interesting to participate in getting the said Units of
> Measure ontology effort going.
Interested, yes.
> 2. who is willing to provide some level of leadership to get this
> effort off the ground.
Sorry, not enough spare time right now to take the reins.
> 3. who would be joining us if we do run a virtual panel session on
> this on Thu 2009.06.11
Assuming Im not in transit, yes.
> 4. if you are joining, and would like to be a panelist, please provide
> a title and an abstract of what you might share with in in a 10~15
> minute brief.
Let me get back to you on that.
> 5. besides PatCassidy, who else has (access to) a UoM related
> ontology, that he/she can upload to the OOR sandbox
Not at present.
Pat Hayes
> and some other
> publicly accessible ontology repository? (if the latter, please advise
> where the repository is.)
>
> Let's wait till end-of-day Tuesday June-2 for everyone's response.
> Depending on the responses, we'll decide how to move forward with
> this.
> Do respond NOW (to this thread), please, if you can!
>
>
> Thanks & regards. =ppy
> --
>
>
> 2009/5/19 Olken, Frank <folken@xxxxxxx>:
>> Peter,
>>
>> I am still interested, but still busy running NSF review panels.
>> June 10-11, 2009 is (I hope) my last panel of the fiscal year.
>>
>> Frank Olken
>>
>> National Science Foundation
>> Computer and Information Science and Engineering Directorate
>> Intelligent Information Systems Division
>> Information Integration and Informatics Program
>> Suite 1125
>> 4201 Wilson Blvd.
>> Arlington, VA 22230
>>
>> Tel: 703-292-8930 (main)
>> Tel: 703-292-7350 (direct)
>> Email: folken@xxxxxxx
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/frankolken
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: peter.yim@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:peter.yim@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>> Peter Yim
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 3:23 PM
>> To: Ontology Summit 2009; Forest Lin; Patrick Cassidy; Duane
>> Nickull; Conrad Bock; Rob Raskin; Olken, Frank; Gunther Schadow;
>> Chute, Christopher G., M.D., Dr. P.H.; David Price; Peter Benson;
>> Elisa Kendall; Edward Barkmeyer
>> Cc: Steve Ray; Peter Yim
>> Subject: Re: 回复： [ontology-summit] Progressing a Units Ontology -
>> virtual session
>>
>> All,
>>
>> Since only 3 people indicated they could be available to do the
>> session this Thursday (May-21 ... but, luckily, they are also
>> available for Jun-11), I'll assume that's not quite making critical
>> mass. Let's decide to drop this Thursday, and pursue the Thursday
>> Jun-11 date for the session instead. This would give everyone a bit
>> more time to respond and to get prepared. Unless we hear major
>> objections to this date, let's lock that date in, and move on to
>> getting the right people and content prepared.
>>
>> Once again, would you be able to join us for the session on
>> 11-Jun-2009 - 2 Hrs starting Thu 2009.06.11 - 10:30am PDT / 1:30pm
>> EDT
>> / 7:30pm CEST / 6:30pm BST / 17:30 UTC
>>
>> I've added a couple more people (ElisaKendall and EdBarkmeyer) to the
>> initial list. Will everyone please also advise who else should be
>> involved, please indicate. So, unless you've already indicated your
>> availability, please advise if you can join us on Jun-11 [attn: PatC,
>> Duane, Conrad, Rob, Frank, Gunther, Forest, ChrisC, David, PeterB,
>> Elisa, EdB] ... we need your presence and support if we were to
>> embark
>> on an ontology as important as this!
>>
>> Thanks & regards. =ppy
>> --
>
>
>> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 9:32 PM, Forest Lin
>> <linforests@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> I am afraid I can not participate in the forthcoming discussion.
>>> But I'd
>>> like to know the progress.
>>> Thank you and all for pushing it forward.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> ..Lin
>
>
>> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:10 AM, <david.leal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>> Dear Peter,
>>>
>>> I hope to join on Thursday.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> David
>
>
>> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 8:50 AM, David Price <david.price@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > wrote:
>>> I can participate this Thursday and/or on June 11.
>>>
>>> I'm actually at an ISO TC184 SC4 STEP meeting this week so the
>>> timing is
>>> perfect. I'll mention it to David Leal who will likely want to
>>> participate
>>> as well.
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter, thanks for pushing this forward!
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> David
>
>
>> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 8:13 AM, Patrick Cassidy <pat@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>> I will be available this Thursday, and probably June 11th also.
>>>
>>> One additional 'units' work: Helena Pinto reviewed the units
>>> portion of the
>>> SUMO and published a paper (attached so you don't have to track it
>>> down).
>>>
>>> Pat
>>>
>>> Patrick Cassidy
>>> MICRA, Inc.
>>> 908-561-3416
>>> cell: 908-565-4053
>>> cassidy@xxxxxxxxx
>
>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Peter Yim <peter.yim@xxxxxxxx>
>>> To: Patrick Cassidy <pat@xxxxxxxxx>; Duane Nickull <dnickull@xxxxxxxxx
>>> >;
>>> Conrad Bock <conrad.bock@xxxxxxxx>; Rob Raskin
>>> <raskin@xxxxxxxxxxxx>;
>>> "Olken, Frank" <folken@xxxxxxx>; Gunther Schadow <gschadow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >;
>>> Forest Lin <linforests@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Chute, Christopher G.,
>>> M.D., Dr.
>>> P.H." <chute@xxxxxxxx>; David Price <david.price@xxxxxxxxxxxx>;
>>> Peter Benson
>>> <Peter.Benson@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> cc: Ontology Summit 2009 <ontology-summit@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Steve
>>> Ray
>>> <steve@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Peter Yim <peter.yim@xxxxxxxx>
>>> Date: Mon, May 18, 2009 at 7:51 AM PDT
>>> Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] Progressing a Units Ontology -
>>> virtual session
>>>
>>>> [PC] Any other unit ontologies we should consider?
>>>
>>>> [DN] I抳e been searching but have not yet found any.
>>>
>>> [ppy] I thought Conrad Bock (NIST) gave posted a very comprehensive
>>> list - see:
>>> http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/2009-05/msg00032.html
>>>
>>> Additionally (although, not expressed in an ontology language yet)
>>> are
>>> the UCUM (Unified Code for Units of Measure) - see:
>>> http://unitsofmeasure.org/
>>> & http://www.regenstrief.org/medinformatics/ucum - which were
>>> brought
>>> up (offline) by ForestLin, GuntherSchadow and ChrisChute during the
>>> course of the OntologySummit2009 discussion.
>>>
>>>
>>> On a separate note ...
>>>
>>> David Price suggested
>>> (http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2009_05_14#nid1XOU
>>> ) we do a virtual session to discuss the Units of Measure ontology
>>> stuff some time soon. This Thursday's meeting slot (Thu 2009.05.21
>>> 1.5~2 Hrs. starting 10:30am PDT / 1:30pm EDT / 7:30pm CEST / 6:30pm
>>> BST / 17:30 UTC) is open. (If not, the next open Thursday slot is
>>> June-11 ... or we will have to choose a non-Thursday to do it.)
>>>
>>> Let's do a quick poll ... for the 10 people directly addressed (in
>>> "To:") on this message, who could/would join us if do it the session
>>> this Thursday? (kindly respond today ... so we can lock the time in,
>>> and have people starting working on preparing for the session.)
>>> Also,
>>> if we do it on Jun-11, would you be able to join? [attn: Pat, Duane,
>>> Conrad, Rob, Frank, Gunther, Forest, Chris, David, Peter]
>>>
>>> Others who are planning to join, and have some thoughts on dates are
>>> welcome to chime in.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks & regards. =ppy
>>> --
>>
>
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