Hi Kingsley, (01)
On Sun, 2014-02-09 at 14:19 -0500, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
> On 2/8/14 7:51 PM, Paul Tyson wrote:
> > Hi Kingsley,
> >
> > On Sat, 2014-02-08 at 13:19 -0500, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
> >> On 2/8/14 12:32 AM, Paul Tyson wrote:
> >>> "-- It is a data base language for text.
> >> That's the crux of the matter! A database is a document comprised of
> >> structured data. It isn't a database management system i.e., an
> >> application that provides services such as: storage, indexing,
> >> declarative query access etc..
> > I suppose you meant to say in the 2nd sentence: "An XML instance
> > is ...", followed by "It isn't a database management system....".
>
> I am saying that a database is a kind of document. (02)
At first that's what I thought you meant, but since I generally think of
documents as having boundedness, identity, and some degree of
persistence or stability, I wasn't prepared to accept your
characterization of a database "as a document". But after dereferencing
the pronouns correctly, and with your further explanations, I see we are
in agreement. (03)
Regards,
--Paul (04)
>
> I am also saying that a database management system is an application
> that manage databases.
>
> Based on the above, XML based markup can be used to create databases
> i.e., documents comprised of structured data marked up using an XML
> based notation.
>
> >
> > True. Goldfarb wasn't saying that, and neither would I.
>
> I wasn't insinuating that you were. I was simply trying to isolate the
> database and database management system confusion that tends to permeate
> these kinds of conversations/debates about XML utility.
>
> >> XML is fine as mechanism for marking up structured data in a document.
> >> The utility of this process isn't optimal if the endeavor requires
> >> entity relationships and relation semantics to be discernible and
> >> comprehensible to human authors and readers.
> > You lost me here.
>
> See my comments above.
>
> > If you have the identifiers of 2 entities and a
> > relation between them, there are any number of ways you can put the
> > identifiers into a character stream that can be deciphered to indicate
> > the relationship.
>
> Yes, I am not disputing that.
>
> > An XML notation would be the most generally useful,
> > but, as has been repeatedly noted, may not be preferred for ephemeral
> > applications.
>
> Now you've lost me. All I am saying is that you can use a variety of
> languages (including those that only have XML based notations) to create
> databases i.e., documents comprised of structured content in the form of
> statements that represent entity relations.
> >
> > I've been trying to avoid any suggestion that XML "has semantics" in and
> > of itself.
>
> An XML based language (e.g. RDF/XML) can be a notation used to represent
> entity relations for a given language (system of signs, syntax, and
> semantics).
>
> > On the contrary, by doing little it enables much, as
> > illustrated by Goldfarb's list of characteristics and capabilities.
>
> Not disputing Goldfarb's points :-)
>
> Links:
>
> [1] http://bit.ly/1fVZDi5 -- Language
> [2] http://bit.ly/1o7pcRb -- Semantics
> [3] http://bit.ly/1ievivx -- Database .
>
>
> Kingsley
> >
> > Regards,
> > --Paul
> >
> >
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