Steven, I do understand your time constraints, and thank you – but if you get a few minutes to say something in this Ontolog discussion about Rudolf Carnap -- and the Vienna circle -- and your ideas about "ground" -- or grounding -- or the big issue with the Vienna Circle, I personally would be very interested to hear it.
Logical analysis shows that there are two different kinds of statements; one kind includes statements reducible to simpler statements about the empirically given; the other kind includes statements which cannot be reduced to statements about experience and thus they are devoid of meaning. Metaphysical statements belong to this second kind and therefore they are meaningless. (. . .)
"From this aim follows the search for clarity, neatness, and for a symbolic language that eliminates the problems arising from the ambiguity of natural language."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Circle
This “ambiguity of natural language” was a big driver in my life – and I could see, and accepted, the general view of the Vienna Circle, that metaphysics and holism are weakly grounded. But I did not agree that the solution is to throw out or invalidate metaphysics; the answer is to fix metaphysics (perhaps with a new kind of “symbolic language” that spans this gulf). If you have a second to glance at the “Bridge/Porphyry” diagram I posted earlier today
http://sharedpurpose.net/groupgraphics/porphyrybridge4.png
you might see what I am talking about: a direct “bridge” from a high-level (and perhaps fuzzy or “ungrounded” or “metaphysical”) holism to the “empirical plane” and quantitative variables – ie, the so-called “bridge between science and spirit” – or between “quantitative” and “qualitative” dimensionality.
I hope you’ll find a moment to comment, thanks.
Bruce Schuman
(805) 966-9515 Santa Barbara
http://interspirit.net | http://sharedpurpose.net | http://bridgeacrossconsciousness.net
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steven Ericsson-Zenith
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 4:58 PM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Concept dictionaries and interlinguas
The book is entitled "On The Origin Of Experience: The Shaping Of Sense And The Complex World."
I will be giving a public lecture on the book at Stanford University in November, that lecture will be recorded and available through Stanford's iTunesU. Details on the IASE website.
I had not planned to announce availability of the book on this list but I can change that if requested.
Regards,
Steven
--
Dr. Steven Ericsson-Zenith
Institute for Advanced Science & Engineering
http://iase.info
On Aug 14, 2013, at 4:36 PM, joseph simpson <jjs0sbw@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Does the book have a name?
>
> Will you announce the book's availability on this list?
>
> Have fun,
>
> Joe
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Steven Ericsson-Zenith <steven@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> I appreciate your comments in good humor and I acknowledge that further explanation is required. As I said, really better I say nothing until I am prepared to spend the time justifying my comments. I accept John's criticism.
>
> The only reason I cannot linger is that precisely what you and John justifiably request is underway and due to be delivered as a book in October. Although this book does not relate directly to my work on concept analysis and is more directly focused upon how the attempt to mathematize biophysics informs the foundations of logic and apprehension (and computation). It does, however, deal with basic questions of scientific epistemology.
>
> So, my apologies, when I have finished the book, I will have more time to engage.
>
> Regards,
> Steven
>
> --
> Dr. Steven Ericsson-Zenith
> Institute for Advanced Science & Engineering
> http://iase.info
>
>
>
> On Aug 14, 2013, at 3:13 PM, "Bruce Schuman" <bruceschuman@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Bruce: Just had to laugh, this is a perfect illustration regarding the "unpacking" of implicit (tacit) stipulated meaning --not only regarding a few broad principles (such as the way complex meaning is tacitly embedded in brief abstractions), but also highlighting a very common fundamental driver of the entire process: psychological economy (time and/or energy to make things clearer).
> >
> > There's a whole bunch of interesting things on this web site - http://iase.info – but I gotta agree with John.
> >
> > JS: I am highly skeptical of one-sentence summaries, especially when they contain five vague and highly debatable notions: self-referencing, embody, natural, epistemology, and ground.
> >
> > Bruce: Every one of those five terms is highly value-laden,
> > involving a complex/specific definition that “must be stipulated” by
> > somebody – and negotiated with whoever the speaker is addressing to
> > make sure the terms are clear and understood. Getting all that done
> > is a lot of work. J
> >
> > If we’re talking about some kind of “universal ontology” on all this
> > stuff (laugh again) – I think we gotta put some “negotiation
> > software” in there somewhere. Maybe “diplomacy software”. Let’s
> > get the dimensions lined up right (“apples and oranges”) and then
> > everybody push hard (and play nice) for their team --
> >
> > I used to be into “relaxation methods” for balancing load stress. Maybe that’s what we need JJ
> >
> > <image001.png>
> > Bruce Schuman
> > (805) 966-9515 Santa Barbara
> > http://interspirit.net | http://sharedpurpose.net |
> > http://bridgeacrossconsciousness.net
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steven
> > Ericsson-Zenith
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 1:23 AM
> > To: [ontolog-forum]
> > Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Concept dictionaries and interlinguas
> >
> >
> > I currently have only time for the passing comment. Better for me to say nothing, I agree.
> >
> > Steven
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Steven Ericsson-Zenith
> > Institute for Advanced Science & Engineering
> > http://iase.info
> >
> >
> >
> > On Aug 13, 2013, at 7:44 PM, John F Sowa <sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > > Steven,
> > >> The reason that these approaches fail is that they are
> > >> self-referencing and embody neither a natural epistemology nor ground.
> > >
> > > I am highly skeptical of one-sentence summaries, especially when
> > > they contain five vague and highly debatable notions:
> > > self-referencing, embody, natural, epistemology, and ground.
> > >
> > > I have a high regard for the people who have been doing that
> > > research over the past half century. I won't claim that they have
> > > examined every possible approach from every possible point of
> > > view. But any claim that they have overlooked something that
> > > could be summarized in one line would require much more justification.
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
> > Config Subscr:
> > http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
> > Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/ Community Wiki:
> > http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/ To join:
> > http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J
> > <iaseDOTinfo.PNG>
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
> > Config Subscr:
> > http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
> > Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/ Community Wiki:
> > http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/ To join:
> > http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
> Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
> Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/ Community Wiki:
> http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/ To join:
> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J
>
>
>
>
> --
> Joe Simpson
>
> Sent From My DROID!!
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
> Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
> Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/ Community Wiki:
> http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/ To join:
> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J
_________________________________________________________________
Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/ Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/ To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J
