Dear Doug, (01)
> On Tue, May 21, 2013 04:06, Matthew West wrote:
> > Dear Doug,
> >> > Take the team/club example.
> >> > It seems obvious to me that a team member is indeed a mereological
> >> > part-of the team, at least if we ignore temporal extents (We might
> >> > have to say, the temporal part of the member during the time
> >> > interval that the team exists, is part-of the team.)
> The temporal part of the member is an organizational member of the team
> some interval that is a temporal part of the temporal intersection of the
> person and the team. No current team member of Manchester United was a
> during the full temporal extent of the team. (02)
MW: No, the team member is already a temporal part of a person whilst they
are a team member, you don't need to do it twice. The Manchester United team
naturally consists of the team member temporal parts of all those who have
been members of the team. That is just standard 4D mereology.
> >> Why do you consider the team to have a spatial extent?
> >> I'd resist such a model.
> >> Does the team have a mass and a volume?
> > MW: Well I sail, and I can confirm that there are occasions when the
> > weight of the crew has a limit set on it for a class of boat.
> Does that weight limit include the weight of alternate crew members?
> If not, it is not a limit on the team, but collectively on the group of
> individuals from the team who are competing. (03)
MW: The team in this case is those on the boat whilst racing. There may well
be alternate team members. This is much the same as on a football (soccer)
pitch when there are substitutes on the bench. There are two levels of team
here. From a systems engineering point of view the subs are spare parts.
Would you consider spare parts part of the system they were spare parts for?
> > Interestingly you can even in some cases have more lighter people or
> > fewer heavier people within the rules.
> > So I would definitely go for a team having a mereological relationship
> > to its members.
> An organization of people is different from the group of people who are
> current members.
MW: Yes. But a race team only exists whilst it is on the boat racing. It may
be a spatio-temporal part of some larger organization. (04)
> A time slice of such an organization is different from a
> time slice of that group of people even if there is no change in
> organizational membership during the time slice. (05)
MW: Of course, they are different things.
> The crew of a vehicle is a temporary group of people, and as such has a
> mereological relationship to its instantaneous group members. The members
> the group may or may not be organizational members of the same
MW: All organizations are temporary. I am not aware of any that exist for
all time. (07)
> I'd hazard a guess that in competition there is a weight limit for the
> no matter how that weight is distributed among crew, passengers (if
> beer coolers, and ballast. (08)
MW: Well there is a safe load limit, but that is different. The crew weight
limit is because the crew is partly movable ballast, whereas the other
things you mention are not. Moveable ballast allows you to improve the
performance of the boat by increasing righting moment, keeping the mast
closer to vertical, which improves the efficiency of the sails. Other goods
carried only add weight, which increases wetted surface area, which reduces
speed. The usual rule for inanimate objects is that they must be stowed in
fixed positions. There are of course exceptions like the use of water
ballast, or canting keels. Class rules usually determine if these are
permitted or not, and whether they care about crew weight.
> Many organized sports teams have more organizational members than may
> at a single time. (09)
MW: there are simply two levels of organization: the full team, and the
playing team. (010)
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> > However, there is also the question of roles, so in a crew, one is the
> > helm, another the tactician, two or more are grinders, whilst others
> > are trimmers. So that is another kind of constitution a team has. One
> > does not exclude another.
> Certainly not.
> -- doug foxvog
> > Regards
> > Matthew West
> > Information Junction
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> >> -- doug foxvog
> >> > It is far less
> >> > obvious that the team is part-of the club; indeed, that seems like
> >> > a category mistake. (Does a club have a spatiotemporal extent?) And
> >> > it is surly not true to say that a club is part-of a federation. I
> >> > don't see a federation as being a mereological whole. So, part-of
> >> > is indeed transitive, its is easy to describe, and it has nothing
> >> > much to do with federations. That all seems pretty obvious to me.
> >> >
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
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