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Re: [ontolog-forum] What is the role of an upper level ontology?

To: <doug@xxxxxxxxxx>, "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Patrick Cassidy" <pat@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:48:09 -0400
Message-id: <001001ce5571$6d4a89f0$47df9dd0$@com>
Alas!  I have for the first time found an occasion to disagree with Doug
Foxvog, whose postings generally are among the most logical and sensible.    (01)

Doug suggested a test case for transitive relations:
> So subOrganizationOf is a specialization of partOf which is not
> transitive.
> (subOrganizationOf GaithersburgMD StateOfMaryland)
> (subOrganizationOf StateOfMaryland UnitedStatesOfAmerica)
> (subOrganizationOf UnitedStatesOfAmerica UnitedNations)
> (not (subOrganizationOf GaithersburgMD UnitedNations)
>
 But, ' UnitedStatesOfAmerica' is a **member** of, not a suborganization of
the ' UnitedNationsĺ . . .  no?
Does this change the analysis of 'subOrganizationOf'?    (02)

There should be usages of 'suborganization' that are transitive, where
"orders" or rules can be transmitted down through a chain of
suborganizations, and that would be useful, IMHO.    (03)

Of course, Gaithersburg folk don't take orders from the UN, regardless of
how many black helicopters are hovering overhead.    (04)

Pat    (05)

Patrick Cassidy
MICRA Inc.
cassidy@xxxxxxxxx
908-561-3416    (06)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of doug foxvog
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 11:23 AM
> To: [ontolog-forum]
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] What is the role of an upper level
> ontology?
> 
> On 19 May 2013 07:26, Hassan A´t-Kaci wrote:
> > On 5/19/2013 1:43 AM, jmcclure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> 
> >> Could you provide example of a nontransitive part relation
> 
> > A sport team is part of a sport club. A club is part of a sport
> federation
> > if it has at least one team all of whose members are professional
> players.
> > So a sport team may be part of a club, but not part of a federation.
> 
> > --
> > -hak
> 
> On Sun, May 19, 2013 06:26, Matthew West wrote:
> 
> > This is conflating two things:
> >
> > a)      Membership of a club to a sports federation, and of a player
> to a
> > sports club
> 
> > b)      Whole-part.
> 
> > I would argue that it is the membership relation that is not
> transitive
> 
> So subOrganizationOf is a specialization of partOf which is not
> transitive.
> (subOrganizationOf GaithersburgMD StateOfMaryland)
> (subOrganizationOf StateOfMaryland UnitedStatesOfAmerica)
> (subOrganizationOf UnitedStatesOfAmerica UnitedNations)
> (not (subOrganizationOf GaithersburgMD UnitedNations)
> 
> > but that it is quite reasonable to create a mereological sum
> > of the players of the clubs that are members of a sports club
> > and of a sports federation, and that this is transitive.
> 
> OK, one can create a transitive partanomic relation that has something
> to do with the non-transitive partanomic relation suggested.  But the
> meaning of such a relation seems like it might be tricky to describe
> since the relationship between individual team members to their
> teams is different from their relationship to the club that their team
> is a member of and still different from the relationship that they have
> to the federation of clubs.
> 
> -- doug f
> 
> > Regards
> 
> > Matthew West
> >
> > Information  Junction
> >
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> >
> > Mobile: +44 750 3385279
> >
> > Skype: dr.matthew.west
> >
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> > matthew.west@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
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> > http://www.informationjunction.co.uk/
> >
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> > https://sites.google.com/site/drmatthewwest/
> >
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> 
> 
> > From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Hassan
> > A´t-Kaci
> > Sent: 19 May 2013 07:26
> > To: jmcclure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Cc: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] What is the role of an upper level
> ontology?
> >
> >
> >
> > On 5/19/2013 1:43 AM, jmcclure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> >
> > Could you provide example of a nontransitive part relation
> >
> >
> > A sport team is part of a sport club. A club is part of a sport
> federation
> > if it has at least one team all of whose members are professional
> players.
> > So a sport team may be part of a club, but not part of a federation.
> >
> > --
> > -hak
> 
> 
> 
> 
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