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Re: [ontolog-forum] What is the role of an upper level ontology?

To: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "doug foxvog" <doug@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 17:18:47 -0400
Message-id: <ed02e622f333f21c33ede0022758f72a.squirrel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Mon, May 20, 2013 11:48, Patrick Cassidy wrote:
> Alas!  I have for the first time found an occasion to disagree with Doug
> Foxvog, whose postings generally are among the most logical and sensible.    (01)

Mea culpa.    (02)

Yes, Pat, i was wrong to use subOrganizationOf to relate the US to the UN.
The correct relationship, as you say is memberOf.    (03)

-- doug foxvog    (04)

> Doug suggested a test case for transitive relations:
>> So subOrganizationOf is a specialization of partOf which is not
>> transitive.
>> (subOrganizationOf GaithersburgMD StateOfMaryland)
>> (subOrganizationOf StateOfMaryland UnitedStatesOfAmerica)
>> (subOrganizationOf UnitedStatesOfAmerica UnitedNations)
>> (not (subOrganizationOf GaithersburgMD UnitedNations)
>>
>  But, ' UnitedStatesOfAmerica' is a **member** of, not a suborganization
> of
> the ' UnitedNationsĺ . . .  no?
> Does this change the analysis of 'subOrganizationOf'?
>
> There should be usages of 'suborganization' that are transitive, where
> "orders" or rules can be transmitted down through a chain of
> suborganizations, and that would be useful, IMHO.
>
> Of course, Gaithersburg folk don't take orders from the UN, regardless of
> how many black helicopters are hovering overhead.
>
> Pat
>
> Patrick Cassidy
> MICRA Inc.
> cassidy@xxxxxxxxx
> 908-561-3416
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of doug foxvog
>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 11:23 AM
>> To: [ontolog-forum]
>> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] What is the role of an upper level
>> ontology?
>>
>> On 19 May 2013 07:26, Hassan A´t-Kaci wrote:
>> > On 5/19/2013 1:43 AM, jmcclure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>>
>> >> Could you provide example of a nontransitive part relation
>>
>> > A sport team is part of a sport club. A club is part of a sport
>> federation
>> > if it has at least one team all of whose members are professional
>> players.
>> > So a sport team may be part of a club, but not part of a federation.
>>
>> > --
>> > -hak
>>
>> On Sun, May 19, 2013 06:26, Matthew West wrote:
>>
>> > This is conflating two things:
>> >
>> > a)      Membership of a club to a sports federation, and of a player
>> to a
>> > sports club
>>
>> > b)      Whole-part.
>>
>> > I would argue that it is the membership relation that is not
>> transitive
>>
>> So subOrganizationOf is a specialization of partOf which is not
>> transitive.
>> (subOrganizationOf GaithersburgMD StateOfMaryland)
>> (subOrganizationOf StateOfMaryland UnitedStatesOfAmerica)
>> (subOrganizationOf UnitedStatesOfAmerica UnitedNations)
>> (not (subOrganizationOf GaithersburgMD UnitedNations)
>>
>> > but that it is quite reasonable to create a mereological sum
>> > of the players of the clubs that are members of a sports club
>> > and of a sports federation, and that this is transitive.
>>
>> OK, one can create a transitive partanomic relation that has something
>> to do with the non-transitive partanomic relation suggested.  But the
>> meaning of such a relation seems like it might be tricky to describe
>> since the relationship between individual team members to their
>> teams is different from their relationship to the club that their team
>> is a member of and still different from the relationship that they have
>> to the federation of clubs.
>>
>> -- doug f
>>
>> > Regards
>>
>> > Matthew West
>> >
>> > Information  Junction
>> >
>> > Tel: +44 1489 880185
>> >
>> > Mobile: +44 750 3385279
>> >
>> > Skype: dr.matthew.west
>> >
>> >  <mailto:matthew.west@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > matthew.west@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >
>> >  <http://www.informationjunction.co.uk/>
>> > http://www.informationjunction.co.uk/
>> >
>> >  <https://sites.google.com/site/drmatthewwest/>
>> > https://sites.google.com/site/drmatthewwest/
>> >
>> > This email originates from Information Junction Ltd. Registered in
>> England
>> > and Wales No. 6632177.
>> > Registered office: 8 Ennismore Close, Letchworth Garden City,
>> > Hertfordshire,
>> > SG6 2SU.
>>
>>
>> > From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Hassan
>> > A´t-Kaci
>> > Sent: 19 May 2013 07:26
>> > To: jmcclure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Cc: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] What is the role of an upper level
>> ontology?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 5/19/2013 1:43 AM, jmcclure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>> >
>> > Could you provide example of a nontransitive part relation
>> >
>> >
>> > A sport team is part of a sport club. A club is part of a sport
>> federation
>> > if it has at least one team all of whose members are professional
>> players.
>> > So a sport team may be part of a club, but not part of a federation.
>> >
>> > --
>> > -hak
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>    (05)



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