Pat,
The article i read in the Washington Post had an author referring to the
many uses of tree bark as the probable reason that that cognate was
maintained. (01)
Note that the list differentiates verb forms by using the English infinitive. (02)
Someone asked if Cyc had all of the "words". I looked at OpenCyc, which
has all instances of #$EnglishWord removed, so OpenCyc has none of
the "words". Open Cyc does have the concepts for all of the nouns and verbs
mentioned (including all three meanings of "bark"), however. It has a
concept for "Black" and relations such as #$olderThan which can map to
the relative word "old". OpenCyc has nothing corresponding to the
prepositions, but i remember that Cyc's NL system did. (03)
I think the list should have "Mom" instead of "Mother"; that seems to be
the form that spreads. I was surprised when i lived in Finland that the
(non-IndoEuropean) Finnish word for mother ("äiti") was totally unrelated
to "mom", which i thought was universal. However, my daughter learned
that the word for "grandma" was "mummo" (although "grandmother" was
"isoäiti"), so that cognate exists with a modified meaning. (04)
Most of the other words seem to have no relation with Finnish terms for
the same words. Maybe Hungarian has the cognates. (05)
Thou > sinä
I > mina (a "me" cognate")
Not > ei
That > Tämä (?maybe?)
We > Me
To give > Antaa
Who > Kuka
This > Tämä
What > Mitä
Man/male > Mies / uros (one letter the same)
Ye > Te
Old > Vanha
Mother > Äiti [but "grandma" > mummo]
To hear > Kuulla
Hand > Käsi
Fire > Tuli
To pull > Vetää
Black > Musta
To flow > Virrata
Bark > (Puun) kuori ["kuori" is s]hell/husk/... "puu" is tree's
Ashes > Tuhkaa
To spit > Sylkeä
Worm > Mato (06)
-- doug foxvog (07)
On Wed, May 8, 2013 10:57, Patrick Cassidy wrote:
> Yes, I interpret this 'bark' as a noun - the audible waveform that sounds
> like the bark of a dog.
> The action 'to bark' is what causes ('produces') the sound, in the COSMO
> ontology view of things.
>
> What I found interesting is that, although I am guessing that sound
> primitives will include pure tones and syllables, the notion of animal
> sounds being very basic had not occurred to me, nor appeared in the works
> I
> have seen. It is possible that the brain research being done these days
> may
> provide some objective data to indicate which concepts are actually
> primitive from a human thinking point of view. Stay 'tuned'. ;-)
>
> Pat
>
> Patrick Cassidy
> MICRA Inc.
> cassidy@xxxxxxxxx
> 908-561-3416
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Barkmeyer, Edward J
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 12:50 AM
>> To: [ontolog-forum]
>> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] 15,000-year-old ancestral language
>>
>> Pat,
>>
>> The article says that 'bark' is a noun.
>>
>> Beyond the pronouns, I would not attach too much significance to the
>> handful of survivors of 15000 years of social change. English alone
>> tells us that the "half life" of important words can be significantly
>> altered by social and military history. Words of the conqueror will
>> displace words of the conquered; words of the dominant trade people
>> will displace words of the consumers. Words for tools might change
>> when you switch from stone to bronze. Even words for eating might
>> change when your diet changes. (And in the latter half of the 20th
>> century it became commonplace in our trade to re-invent the same old
>> wheels every 5-10 years with a whole new set of terms to suggest that
>> there was a "new" technology. While that might be an egregious case,
>> I'm sure it has happened in some form many times in 15000 years.)
>>
>> -Ed
>>
>> --
>> Edward J. Barkmeyer Email: edbark@xxxxxxxx
>> National Institute of Standards & Technology
>> Engineering Laboratory -- Systems Integration Division
>> 100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8263 Office: +1 301-975-3528
>> Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8263 Mobile: +1 240-672-5800
>> ________________________________________
>> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [ontolog-forum-
>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Patrick Cassidy [pat@xxxxxxxxx]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 11:16 PM
>> To: '[ontolog-forum] '
>> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] 15,000-year-old ancestral language
>>
>> Interesting. The word "bark" (or "barking") is not included in the
>> Longman
>> defining vocabulary.
>> It is defined as "the sharp sound made by a dog" (all those words are
>> in the
>> defining vocabulary), and as similar sounds.
>>
>> This may be one of the semantic primitives missing from the Longman
>> defining
>> vocabulary; though it can be "defined" (in the dictionary sense), the
>> understanding depends on the reader having had the perception
>> experience of
>> hearing a dog bark.
>>
>> I just added this to the COSMO ontology. Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Pat
>>
>>
>> Patrick Cassidy
>> MICRA Inc.
>> cassidy@xxxxxxxxx
>> 908-561-3416
>>
>> To minimize effort, the list is reproduced here:
>>
>> Thou
>> I
>> Not
>> That
>> We
>> To give
>> Who
>> This
>> What
>> Man/male
>> Ye
>> Old
>> Mother
>> To hear
>> Hand
>> Fire
>> To pull
>> Black
>> To flow
>> Bark
>> Ashes
>> To spit
>> Worm
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
>> > bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rich Cooper
>> > Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 5:30 PM
>> > To: '[ontolog-forum] '
>> > Subject: [ontolog-forum] 15,000-year-old ancestral language
>> >
>> > I found an article titled
>> >
>> > "Ultraconserved words point to deep language
>> > ancestry across Eurasia"
>> >
>> > That might be interesting to an occasional
>> > ontologist among us. The URL is:
>> >
>> > http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/05/01/12187
>> > 26110.full.pdf+html
>> >
>> > It lists 23 words that are shared in a buncha
>> > modern languages, and the authors claim the 15,000
>> > year old dating through statistical analysis.
>> > They produce what they call a "Phylogenetic Tree
>> > of the Eurasiatic Language Superfamily".
>> >
>> > Are all 23 of these words in Cyc?
>> >
>> > Does anyone know if these words are part of Ana
>> > Wierzbicka's vocabulary of primitives to some
>> > degree?
>> >
>> > -Rich
>> >
>> > Sincerely,
>> > Rich Cooper
>> > EnglishLogicKernel.com
>> > Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
>> > 9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
>> >
>> >
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