Pat, (01)
This is presumably resolved by consulting the source of the 200 common meanings
cited in the article.
I assumed that the authors used the "noun" designation to refer to the rind of
trees, and would have used the "verb" designation if they had meant the gerund
"bark" = "barking". (02)
I seem to recall reading that wild dogs and wolves don't "bark", although
coyotes do, and "barking" is actually only a common behavior of domesticated
dogs. Further, the dog is the oldest domesticated animal, and my recollection
is that that is estimated to have occurred sometime around 15 kya, which would
be about the time of the unifying protolanguage the article posits. Taken
together, it suggests that the "bark" of a dog would not be common in origin. (03)
Also, "bark" is echoic, like "woof" and "howl", and it is easy to imagine that
similar echoic words would have been invented in the languages of cultures that
had domesticated dogs, whether or not there was a common origin. In a similar
way, it has been suggested before that "ma" is a sound that frequently comes
out of the mouths of babes experimenting with the their linguistic apparatus,
and if mothers reinforce it, it becomes a word for "mother" in the home and in
the language. The issue of accidental reinvention is a known problem in
language genetics. By comparison, "bark" referring to the rind of a tree has
no such problems. (04)
-Ed (05)
--
Edward J. Barkmeyer Email: edbark@xxxxxxxx
National Institute of Standards & Technology
Systems Integration Division
100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8263 Work: +1 301-975-3528
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8263 Mobile: +1 240-672-5800 (06)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Patrick Cassidy
> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 10:57 AM
> To: '[ontolog-forum] '
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] 15,000-year-old ancestral language
>
> Yes, I interpret this 'bark' as a noun - the audible waveform that sounds like
> the bark of a dog.
> The action 'to bark' is what causes ('produces') the sound, in the COSMO
> ontology view of things.
>
> What I found interesting is that, although I am guessing that sound primitives
> will include pure tones and syllables, the notion of animal sounds being very
> basic had not occurred to me, nor appeared in the works I have seen. It is
> possible that the brain research being done these days may provide some
> objective data to indicate which concepts are actually primitive from a human
> thinking point of view. Stay 'tuned'. ;-)
>
> Pat
>
> Patrick Cassidy
> MICRA Inc.
> cassidy@xxxxxxxxx
> 908-561-3416
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
> > bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Barkmeyer, Edward J
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 12:50 AM
> > To: [ontolog-forum]
> > Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] 15,000-year-old ancestral language
> >
> > Pat,
> >
> > The article says that 'bark' is a noun.
> >
> > Beyond the pronouns, I would not attach too much significance to the
> > handful of survivors of 15000 years of social change. English alone
> > tells us that the "half life" of important words can be significantly
> > altered by social and military history. Words of the conqueror will
> > displace words of the conquered; words of the dominant trade people
> > will displace words of the consumers. Words for tools might change
> > when you switch from stone to bronze. Even words for eating might
> > change when your diet changes. (And in the latter half of the 20th
> > century it became commonplace in our trade to re-invent the same old
> > wheels every 5-10 years with a whole new set of terms to suggest that
> > there was a "new" technology. While that might be an egregious case,
> > I'm sure it has happened in some form many times in 15000 years.)
> >
> > -Ed
> >
> > --
> > Edward J. Barkmeyer Email: edbark@xxxxxxxx
> > National Institute of Standards & Technology Engineering Laboratory --
> > Systems Integration Division
> > 100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8263 Office: +1 301-975-3528
> > Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8263 Mobile: +1 240-672-5800
> > ________________________________________
> > From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [ontolog-forum-
> > bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Patrick Cassidy [pat@xxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 11:16 PM
> > To: '[ontolog-forum] '
> > Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] 15,000-year-old ancestral language
> >
> > Interesting. The word "bark" (or "barking") is not included in the
> > Longman defining vocabulary.
> > It is defined as "the sharp sound made by a dog" (all those words are
> > in the defining vocabulary), and as similar sounds.
> >
> > This may be one of the semantic primitives missing from the Longman
> > defining vocabulary; though it can be "defined" (in the dictionary
> > sense), the understanding depends on the reader having had the
> > perception experience of hearing a dog bark.
> >
> > I just added this to the COSMO ontology. Thanks.
> >
> >
> > Pat
> >
> >
> > Patrick Cassidy
> > MICRA Inc.
> > cassidy@xxxxxxxxx
> > 908-561-3416
> >
> > To minimize effort, the list is reproduced here:
> >
> > Thou
> > I
> > Not
> > That
> > We
> > To give
> > Who
> > This
> > What
> > Man/male
> > Ye
> > Old
> > Mother
> > To hear
> > Hand
> > Fire
> > To pull
> > Black
> > To flow
> > Bark
> > Ashes
> > To spit
> > Worm
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
> > > bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rich Cooper
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 5:30 PM
> > > To: '[ontolog-forum] '
> > > Subject: [ontolog-forum] 15,000-year-old ancestral language
> > >
> > > I found an article titled
> > >
> > > "Ultraconserved words point to deep language ancestry across
> > > Eurasia"
> > >
> > > That might be interesting to an occasional ontologist among us. The
> > > URL is:
> > >
> > > http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/05/01/12187
> > > 26110.full.pdf+html
> > >
> > > It lists 23 words that are shared in a buncha modern languages, and
> > > the authors claim the 15,000 year old dating through statistical
> > > analysis.
> > > They produce what they call a "Phylogenetic Tree of the Eurasiatic
> > > Language Superfamily".
> > >
> > > Are all 23 of these words in Cyc?
> > >
> > > Does anyone know if these words are part of Ana Wierzbicka's
> > > vocabulary of primitives to some degree?
> > >
> > > -Rich
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Rich Cooper
> > > EnglishLogicKernel.com
> > > Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
> > > 9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
> > >
> > >
> > >
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