On Wed, September 5, 2012 13:13, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
> On 9/5/12 8:06 AM, Michael Brunnbauer wrote: (01)
>> I think doug really has a point here. Imagine how simple the conversion
>> of a
>> RDB to RDF would be if we had n-ary relations. Of course the usefulness
>> of such an 1:1 conversion is doubtful but the entry threshold would be
>> lower. (02)
> Sorta.
> ... (03)
> When trying to get Web users to express and share facts, I believe
> 3-tuples are adequate. A nice example is the ability to express and
> share facts via Turtle documents [3]. We can't ask Web users to start
> with n-tuples, it won't work. (04)
If we provide them a set of a few vetted higher-arity relations, Web
users could certainly use them. Some examples being:
(between MID SIDEA SIDEB)
(betweenOnPath MID LOCA LOCB PATH) (05)
> ...
> I am simply fighting for a starting point that maps closely to mental
> model of most humans. (06)
I think that the concepts of "between" and "between on path" fall
within the mental model of most adult humans. (07)
>> ...
>> I have wondered about the restriction to triples publicly several times
>> and
>> never got an answer about the reasons for it. Was it for simplicity of
>> implementation ? (08)
> Simplicity en route to bootstrap. (09)
Over-simplicity makes bootstrapping harder. Java does not restrict
users to binary methods. (010)
>> Do we really know that n-tuples would be a pain ? (011)
> Yes, look at blank nodes in RDF [4][5]. (012)
This was partly of a struggle to reify n-tuples using triples. Allowing
n-tuples would eliminate much of the need for blank nodes. (013)
> Even look at multi-value types
> in RDBMS products. The results are always the same, too confusing for
> end-users to get going. (014)
The DB comparison to higher-arity that i see is having multiple columns
with a conjoined meaning. (015)
-- doug foxvog (016)
> Links:
>
> 1. http://virtuoso.openlinksw.com/dataspace/dav/wiki/Main/VOSSQLRDF --
> mapping via a Meta Language between an RDBMS and RDF
>
> 2. http://bit.ly/Q7D9jw -- some posts showcasing a live instance of our
> hybrid data server explore which shows effects of navigation over
> intensional and extensional dimensions (even shows the effects of
> different kinds of hyperlinks as super keys etc..)
>
> 3. http://bit.ly/RJzd9S -- why Turtle is effective for enabling mass
> curation and dissemination of facts, at Web-scale.
>
> 4. http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/ -- Turtle spec
>
> 5. http://www.w3.org/2007/02/turtle/primer/#structuredproperties --
> Turtle Primer .
>
> Kingsley
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Michael Brunnbauer
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 05, 2012 at 07:22:56AM -0400, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>>> On 9/5/12 12:02 AM, doug foxvog wrote:
>>>> On Tue, September 4, 2012 17:02, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>>>>> On 9/4/12 3:41 PM, doug foxvog wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, September 4, 2012 12:34, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe Data denotes Subject Observation.
>>>>>>> I believe all observations are comprised of:
>>>>>>> 1. a subject
>>>>>>> 2. subject attributes
>>>>>>> 3. subject attribute values.
>>>> ...
>>>>>> One common type of observation is that A is between B and C.
>>>>>> How would you express this with a single triple? 8)#
>>>>> I would state that A is between B. A is Between C. Then I would
>>>>> define
>>>>> the semantics of the 'Between' predicate .
>>>> !??
>>>> Let's explore this:
>>>> (and
>>>> (between 10 5 11)
>>>> (between 10 4 11)
>>>> (between 10 6 11)
>>>> (between 10 7 11))
>>>> Using the KI translator this becomes:
>>>> AND
>>>> 10 is between 5
>>>> 10 is between 11
>>>> 10 is between 4
>>>> 10 is between 11
>>>> 10 is between 6
>>>> 10 is between 11
>>>> 10 is between 7
>>>> 10 is between 11.
>>>>
>>>> What semantics does the between predicate have?
>>> And that isn't what I was conveying to you. Basically, at what point
>>> did
>>> you indicate we where dealing with typed literals? You said A between B
>>> and B between C. Why on earth should I assume A, B, and C are typed
>>> literals? Just because you used the literal 'Between' in some kind of
>>> fuzzy context?
>>>
>>> RDF is pretty clear about the semantics for typed literals.
>>>> How about the quaternary predicate, isBetweenOnPath?
>>>> Can you express the following with triples:
>>>>
>>>> (and
>>>> (isBetweenOnPath WashingtonDC Maryland Virginia I95)
>>>> (not (isBetweenOnPath WashingtonDC Maryland Virginia I495)))
>>> I think we are now talking past ourselves.
>>>
>>> If you have some alternative to RDF that works, just point me to it. I
>>> think that's the best use of our respective time at this juncture.
>>>
>>> Kingsley
>>>>
>>>> -- doug foxvog
>>>> ...
>>>>> Kingsley
>>>>>> -- doug foxvog
>>>> (017)
>>> --
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Kingsley Idehen
>>> Founder & CEO
>>> OpenLink Software
>>> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
>>> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
>>> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen (018)
> --
>
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen
> Founder & CEO
> OpenLink Software
> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen (019)
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