On Wed, September 5, 2012 09:19, Andries van Renssen wrote: (01)
> I am indeed convinced that free n-tuples are a pain, because everybody is
> free to create his own n-tuples (02)
Everybody is free to create her own triples as well. (03)
> and there is no common convention to interpret them. (04)
In XML. FWIW, RDF does have lists which are n-tuples. (05)
Languages that use n-tuples do have conventions. (06)
> The relations between the elements in the tuples are not
> explicit, neither are the roles that those elements play in those
> relations. (07)
These merely need to be defined. Look at how Cyc does it. (08)
> My research is oriented towards a common formal language and
> a universal data structure.
> I think that triples play an important role in that, but an implementation
> in triples make it very verbose and difficult to read. I converged towards
> a
> standard n-tuple (not necessarily ordered) that can be represented in a
> standard table in which many elements are optional or can have a default
> value. (09)
Tuples can certainly be placed in tables. Triples and quads often are.
This is a storage mechanism,not a semantic issue. (010)
-- doug foxvog (011)
> That standard n-tuple forms the Gellish Data Table that is the universal
> data structure that I mentioned in my previous mail as being described in
> the document "Definition of Universal Semantic Databases and Data Exchange
> Messages" on http://www.gellish.net/downloads/category/2-english.html .
>
> With kind regards,
> Andries
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Namens Michael Brunnbauer
> Verzonden: woensdag 5 september 2012 14:06
> Aan: [ontolog-forum]
> Onderwerp: Re: [ontolog-forum] Accommodating legacy software
>
>
> Hello Kingsley,
>
> I think doug really has a point here. Imagine how simple the conversion of
> a
> RDB to RDF would be if we had n-ary relations. Of course the usefulness
> of such an 1:1 conversion is doubtful but the entry threshold would be
> lower.
>
> Am I right that you are OK with quick and simple conversions to RDF where
> the
> real value is added via mappings later ? Some of your data integration
> tools
> probably work this way.
>
> I have wondered about the restriction to triples publicly several times
> and
> never got an answer about the reasons for it. Was it for simplicity of
> implementation ? Do we really know that n-tuples would be a pain ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael Brunnbauer
>
> On Wed, Sep 05, 2012 at 07:22:56AM -0400, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>> On 9/5/12 12:02 AM, doug foxvog wrote:
>> >On Tue, September 4, 2012 17:02, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>> >>On 9/4/12 3:41 PM, doug foxvog wrote:
>> >>>On Tue, September 4, 2012 12:34, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>> >...
>> >
>> >>>>I believe Data denotes Subject Observation.
>> >>>>I believe all observations are comprised of:
>> >>>>1. a subject
>> >>>>2. subject attributes
>> >>>>3. subject attribute values.
>> >...
>> >>>One common type of observation is that A is between B and C.
>> >>>How would you express this with a single triple? 8)#
>> >>I would state that A is between B. A is Between C. Then I would define
>> >>the semantics of the 'Between' predicate .
>> >!??
>> >Let's explore this:
>> > (and
>> > (between 10 5 11)
>> > (between 10 4 11)
>> > (between 10 6 11)
>> > (between 10 7 11))
>> >Using the KI translator this becomes:
>> > AND
>> > 10 is between 5
>> > 10 is between 11
>> > 10 is between 4
>> > 10 is between 11
>> > 10 is between 6
>> > 10 is between 11
>> > 10 is between 7
>> > 10 is between 11.
>> >
>> >What semantics does the between predicate have?
>>
>> And that isn't what I was conveying to you. Basically, at what point did
>> you indicate we where dealing with typed literals? You said A between B
>> and B between C. Why on earth should I assume A, B, and C are typed
>> literals? Just because you used the literal 'Between' in some kind of
>> fuzzy context?
>>
>> RDF is pretty clear about the semantics for typed literals.
>> >
>> >How about the quaternary predicate, isBetweenOnPath?
>> >Can you express the following with triples:
>> >
>> >(and
>> > (isBetweenOnPath WashingtonDC Maryland Virginia I95)
>> > (not (isBetweenOnPath WashingtonDC Maryland Virginia I495)))
>>
>> I think we are now talking past ourselves.
>>
>> If you have some alternative to RDF that works, just point me to it. I
>> think that's the best use of our respective time at this juncture.
>>
>> Kingsley
>> >
>> >
>> >-- doug foxvog
>> >...
>> >>Kingsley
>> >>>-- doug foxvog
>> >
>> >
>> >_________________________________________________________________
>> >Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
>> >Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
>> >Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
>> >Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
>> >To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kingsley Idehen
>> Founder & CEO
>> OpenLink Software
>> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
>> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
>> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
>> Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
>> Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
>> Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
>> To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J
>>
>
> --
> ++ Michael Brunnbauer
> ++ netEstate GmbH
> ++ Geisenhausener Straße 11a
> ++ 81379 München
> ++ Tel +49 89 32 19 77 80
> ++ Fax +49 89 32 19 77 89
> ++ E-Mail brunni@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> ++ http://www.netestate.de/
> ++
> ++ Sitz: München, HRB Nr.142452 (Handelsregister B München)
> ++ USt-IdNr. DE221033342
> ++ Geschäftsführer: Michael Brunnbauer, Franz Brunnbauer
> ++ Prokurist: Dipl. Kfm. (Univ.) Markus Hendel
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
> Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
> Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
> Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
> To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
> Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
> Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
> Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
> To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J
>
> (012)
_________________________________________________________________
Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J (013)
|