Dear Pat, (01)
You are too sensitive; I didn't put Chris "in his
place", or call professors "ivory tower gits".
Your insecurities are revealed by your response. (02)
In fact, I have also been a professor of computer
science at Washington University in Saint Louis,
as well as at California State. I don't have
anything against professors; some of my best
friends profess. (03)
You need to understand that the development and
deployment of systems is just enormously more
complicated than what you learn and teach in
school. That doesn't make it better; it only
makes it different. Don't be so easily rattled,
Pat. (04)
-Rich (05)
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper
EnglishLogicKernel.com
Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2 (06)
-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Hayes [mailto:phayes@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 10:18 AM
To: Chris Menzel
Cc: Rich Cooper; [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] metaphysis, semantics
and the research program of ontologies (07)
On Mar 29, 2012, at 2:59 PM, Rich Cooper wrote: (08)
> Dear Chris,
>
> I am discussing ontology development from the
point of view of various users, not only from the
point of view of professors or logicians. (09)
Well, Chris, I guess that puts you in YOUR place.
Bloody professors think they know everything, not
one of them could use a bloody screwdriver. Why,
my grandfather, who worked his way up by the sweat
of his brow, he knew more about the way the actual
world works that all of these poncy ivory-tower
gits who rabbet on all day about logics and such
nonsense. (010)
> Though logic has its place in ontology, it is
not sufficient to designate the objects that
ontologies are about. Numerous examples have been
given by Hans, Amanda, Mike, and myself.
>
> May I suggest that you consider for a while
exactly what those variable and constant names in
a logical expression refer to? (011)
See? I bet you never even *thought* of that before
Rich pointed it out! Hah!! (012)
Pat (013)
> What do you do when people (e.g. on this list)
disagree about what is referenced? If ontology
can't point to meaningful objects and
relationships, then it is about nothing.
>
> -Rich
>
> Sincerely,
> Rich Cooper
> EnglishLogicKernel.com
> Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
> 9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Christopher Menzel
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:21 AM
> To: [ontolog-forum]
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum]
metaphysis,semantics and the research program of
ontologies
>
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Rich Cooper
<rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Dear Chris,
>
> Reality is far, far more than logic.
>
> Indeed. Why you think this is in any way germane
to my post is a mystery to me.
>
> The purpose
> of any representation of reality is so that we
can
> manipulate reality in ways that assist us, and
so
> that we can know which realities cannot be
> manipulated.
>
> In addition to logic, there is usefulness,
> appreciation (beauty, attractiveness, elegance,
> love, lust, ..), value (preference of one thing
> over another given a choice), and all the
> humanities.
>
> Limiting ourselves to just logic is a poor
strategy, IMHO.
>
> This is so far off the point I hardly know where
to begin. Ontology engineering is about the
representation of information. But there is no
limitation on the type of information - it can be
anything from payrolls to art to ethics. And,
obviously, extra-logical methods and tools will be
involved in the analysis and collection of that
information. But the medium of representation in
ontology engineering is formal logic and
constructing ontologies in formal logic is the
name of the game. It makes about as much sense to
talk about "limiting" ontologists to "just logic"
as it does to talk about "limiting" a conductor to
"just an orchestra". If you are not talking about
issues and problems related ultimately to the
representation of information - any information -
in logic, you are not talking about ontology
engineering.
>
> -chris
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
_______________
> Message Archives:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
> Config Subscr:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-f
orum/
> Unsubscribe:
mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
> Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
> To join:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePa
ge#nid1J (014)
--------------------------------------------------
----------
IHMC (850)434
8903 or (650)494 3973
40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416
office
Pensacola (850)202 4440
fax
FL 32502 (850)291
0667 mobile
phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us
http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes (015)
_________________________________________________________________
Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J (016)
|