Dear Ron, (01)
Let's add these topics to the proposed ontology of
self interest: (02)
6-corporate manipulation of government and unions;
7-union manipulation of government and
corporations. (03)
I had forgotten those topics over the last few
days. Are you also willing to participate in the
proposed ontology of self interest, as a small and
hypothetical instance of a self interest ontology? (04)
If so, that brings us to five participants: DF,
JS, AA, RW and RC. But I volunteered the other
three; lets see if they agree on the pursuit of
this ontology. (05)
-Rich (06)
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper
EnglishLogicKernel.com
Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2 (07)
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Ron Wheeler
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 6:16 AM
To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] intangibles (was RE:
Why mostclassificationsare fuzzy) (08)
Big companies get what they want from both
parties:
- no anti-trust action
- no shareholders rights
- increased regulation to swamp small companies in
paperwork and staff
overhead
- low corporate tax rates to increase profits so
that higher bonuses can
be paid to executives
- anti-union laws (right to work - for less) so
that the middle class
does not eat up too much of the corporate profits
and reduce bonuses (09)
Ron (010)
On 10/08/2011 12:05 AM, doug foxvog wrote:
> On Tue, August 9, 2011 16:38, Rich Cooper said:
>
>> I agree that forced and exclusive regulation is
>> SOMETIMES necessary, but I prefer the way the
ISO
>> 9000 and ISO 9001 standards committee operates,
>> where companies that claim to practice their
>> standards are audited by ISO-accredited
auditors,
>> and given a certification only if their
practices
>> pass the audit. Buyers can then purchase from
>> accredited companies or not, depending on their
>> needs and predilections.
>>
>> But chemicals in food or in food packages that
can
>> be scientifically shown to harm people should
>> certainly be prohibited by law or regulation
>> though, since they do violence to individuals
who
>> don't suspect anything is wrong, as you pointed
>> out. But most regulations and regulatory
bodies
>> are not (IMHO) best forced upon the public
without
>> alternatives. The ISO 9K pattern is one I
would
>> prefer for products and services that are not
>> inherently dangerous.
>>
>> There are other cases of damaging products and
>> services which should also be prohibited, but
>> knowing where to draw the line needs a closer
>> look.
>>
>> Have you seen the recent NASA study
> This is not a NASA study, but a paper by a
long-term climate change
> denier, Dr. Roy Spencer at the University of
Alabama, who works with NASA
> and is also a creationist. He says he became
> "convinced that the theory of creation
actually had a much better
> scientific basis than the theory of
evolution".
>
> He is on the board of the Cornwall Alliance for
the Stewardship of
> Creation, "a conservative Christian public
policy group that promotes a
> free-market approach to care for the
environment".
>
> It appears to me that he has a religio-political
agenda.
>
>> that says global warming alarmism is not
justified,
> The article does not mention "global warming
alarmism" at all.
> http://www.mdpi.com/2072-4292/3/8/1603/pdf
> Given your description, i'm wondering if you
read it. The article does
> not say that anthropogenic global warming is not
occurring. It does state
> that various feedback mechanisms are complicated
to model and that current
> climate models do not accurately model such
feedback.
>
>> and that the earth is emitting heat into space,
> The Earth always does this.
>
>> and also
>> adapting to higher levels of CO2 by emitting
more
>> heat and pushing the gas higher in the
atmosphere?
> Isn't this part of the standard models?
>
>>
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/8278523/n
asa_says_computer_models_wrong_about.html
> I note that this is a political website, not a
scientific one. The actual
> article is at
http://www.mdpi.com/2072-4292/3/8/1603/pdf
>
> Dr. Spencer's credibility is debunked in
>
http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2011/
07/30/is-roy-spencer-a-credible-voice-on-global-wa
rming-research/
>
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43949972/ns/us_news-en
vironment/
>
> Actually, if you go to the actual article
> http://www.mdpi.com/2072-4292/3/8/1603/pdf
> you find that he starts with an equation which
assumes that the
> heat capacity of the oceans is unchanged --
i.e., that negative
> feedback balances any heat input. He states
that a variation of
> the equation would be necessary for the heat
content of "the
> system" to change with time:
> "Cp dΔT/dt = S(t) +
N(t)−λΔT (1)
> Equation (1) states that time-varying sources
of non-radiative
> forcing S and radiative forcing N cause a
climate system with bulk
> heat capacity Cp to undergo a temperature
change with time away
> from its equilibrium state (dΔT/dt), but
with a net radiative feedback
> 'restoring force' (−λΔT)
acting to stabilize the system.
> ... the heat
> capacity Cp in Equation (1) is assumed to
represent the oceanic mixed
> layer. (Note that if Cp is put inside the
time differential term, the
> equation then becomes one for changes in the
heat content of the
> system with time."
>
> Given an incorrect analysis of what the article
says, the conclusions
> drawn from this analysis (in the next paragraph)
have no support.
>
>> That indicates that the UN committee of global
>> warming alarmists are just pursuing a political
>> agenda, especially with the administration and
the
>> UN promoting cap and tax in the US, and other
1st
>> world countries, at US and 1st world expense,
>> while redistributing the funds to 3rd world
>> governments (not 3rd world citizens).
> This is a very curious proposition to be
included in a scientific
> paper (unless the topic is political science).
>
>> I am in favor of helping 3rd world citizens,
...
> The point of trying to limit CO2 emissions is
not to
> help 3rd world citizens, but to avert a
catastrophe.
> Of course, some of the most affected countries
are
> poor, but the Kyoto Protocol and other measures
were
> designed for everyone, not as wealth
redistribution
> measures.
>
>> For another example, the Obama administration's
>> intended policies of prohibiting drilling of
oil
>> and coal resources, even if research has shown
>> ways to clean up the coal,
> Sulphur can be cleaned out of the coal exhaust,
but
> CO2 can not be. "Clean coal" is an oxymoron,
which
> Obama evidently is willing to waste limited
govt. money
> on because it is corporate welfare.
>
>> is economically
>> counterproductive. It has hurt the economy,
>> killed (by some estimates) five million jobs in
>> the industry,
> Where do such ridiculous estimates come from?
Five million is about
> the number of jobs that have been lost in the
recession. The increase
> in jobless since Obama took office is less than
five million.
>
> Obama added temporary
> restrictions on deep ocean drilling while BP was
spewing tremendous
> amounts of crude oil directly into the Gulf of
Mexico, but there
> never have been millions of Americans working on
deep ocean drilling.
>
>> and diverted our focus from what it
>> takes to get energy independence at reasonable
>> prices.
> Funding for wind, solar, geothermal, tidal, and
wave generation
> of energy coupled with co-generation, efficiency
improvement, and
> reduction of excessive use of energy could
safely put us on the
> way to energy independence.
>
>> Yet NASA's evidence shows that its not a
problem.
> Climate disruption is probably the largest
danger to our society.
> It will cost the economy tens of trillions of
dollars.
>
>> Its just another way to use regulation
>> to crowd out the small oil producers and
refiners,
>> and raise the cost of entry.
> Do you actually believe that the Democrats want
to eliminate
> small businesses?
>
>> That is one example
>> where stated remedies, like the new gas mileage
>> the Obama admin has forced on all of us by
>> regulation
> The Bush Administration hurt US auto
manufacturers as well
> the atmosphere by stalling gas mileage increase
requirements.
> Low gas mileage vehicles require the US to
import more fuel,
> hurting our balance of trade, and end up costing
consumers
> more because their vehicles burn more gasoline.
>
>> with no alternative for those who knew
>> the GW alarmists were up to no good with no
good evidence.
> Do you believe that the vast majority of climate
researchers
> around the world are involved in a massive
conspiracy to
> produce false science for some evil purpose?
>
>> There are only a few huge auto companies
>> which dominate the market for good reason -
> because small producers were bought out by
larger ones.
>
>> political pressure and donations that
>> suck funds from taxpayers struggling to make
ends
>> meet.
>
>
>> Watch alternative news, such as Al Jazeera,
Russia
>> Today, and other country opinions of US actions
to
>> get the countervailing view as opposed to just
the
>> mainstream media which stays politically
correct.
>> The other side of the story is very informative
if
>> you are interested in the topics they discuss.
>> One viewpoint is nearly guaranteed to be wrong
in
>> certain ways, and only by stepping outside of
the
>> prevailing views will you get a balanced
>> understanding. Even Fox Business Channel,
which
>> focuses almost solely on financial issues,
>> provides a countervailing view to CNN, for
>> example.
>> These compelling regulatory bodies are usually
>> populated with people from huge companies in
the
>> industry being regulated.
> Certainly when pro-corporate, anti-consumer,
presidents
> appoint board members. We need strong laws
banning
> revolving door employment between regulatory
bodies and
> the companies regulated.
>
> -- doug f
>
>> Guess what? The huge
>> companies become huger and the smaller
companies
>> with better products and services disappear.
>
>
>> JMHO,
>> -Rich
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Rich Cooper
>> EnglishLogicKernel.com
>> Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
>> 9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
>> Behalf Of John F. Sowa
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 12:32 PM
>> To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] intangibles (was
RE:
>> Why mostclassificationsare fuzzy)
>>
>> On 8/9/2011 11:50 AM, Rich Cooper wrote:
>>> Just how much does each of us value safety,
>> honest advertising,
>>> cleanliness, and other honest and fair
>> practices?
>>
>> I would rate those things extremely high. Most
>> people are willing
>> to pay extra for safe, sound, and effective
food,
>> drugs, restaurants,
>> hotels, homes, cars, and appliances. But there
is
>> no way to ensure
>> safety without standards and inspections. And
>> there is no way to
>> ensure that the information people get is
reliable
>> without laws that
>> prosecute false claims and counterfeit labels.
>>
>> If you want to see what happens without
effective
>> gov't regulation,
>> just look at what happened with the food and
water
>> system in China.
>> People there are terrified that they can't
trust
>> their food and
>> water supply. Look at the disastrous levels of
>> casualties caused
>> by earthquakes and mine disasters in areas with
no
>> building codes.
>>
>> The Chinese gov't has imposed some drastic
capital
>> executions
>> for managers responsible for food that killed
>> people. But I'd
>> much rather have standards and inspections in
>> advance than harsh
>> penalties for the people who killed me.
>>
>> You can call that the "nanny state", but I call
it
>> common sense.
>>
>>> I disagree with one-size-fits-all regulation.
>> The European Union has prohibited BPA as a
plastic
>> softener for
>> food containers and children's toys, and
>> California is trying
>> to do the same. But the US still allows BPA.
The
>> Chinese produce
>> plastic with and without BPA. The cost
difference
>> is minimal, but
>> many manufacturers will shave pennies. So they
>> produce both kinds,
>> and they ship the BPA versions to the US.
>>
>> I am all in favor of freedom, especially for
>> myself. But if
>> there is no regulation, the contaminated stuff
>> dominates the market.
>> Worst of all, the people who produce the
>> contaminated stuff don't
>> want any regulations that would force them to
>> disclose what's
>> in their product.
>>
>> That is not freedom for me. That's freedom for
>> the people who
>> produce the contaminated goods. I have no
choice.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
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>
==================================================
===========
> doug foxvog doug@xxxxxxxxxx
http://ProgressiveAustin.org
>
> "I speak as an American to the leaders of my own
nation. The great
> initiative in this war is ours. The initiative
to stop it must be ours."
> - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
>
==================================================
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>
>
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> (011)
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