My understanding is that if you have a contract that must be reduced to writing
to be enforceable per the Statute of Frauds (which isn't so much about fraud
but about what has to be written to be enforceable) and if both parties destroy
the paper in their vaults, then I'd say the contract is gone. (01)
But of course if you destroy yours and the other guy doesn't you're out of luck. (02)
My take is the contract is the mutual obligations (not the paper) but you may
need paper to enforce your rights. (03)
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Bennett
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 11:13 AM
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Why most classifications are fuzzy (04)
Very good point. What's in the vault (or on a record at the
custodian) is just a record of the contract. In fact it would be
more correct to say that what's real is the rights and
obligations defined in the contract, with the contract itself
merely an instrument for these. And of course there are contracts
implicit in transactions, which may or may not be formalised
later by a written contract in some form. (05)
Mike (06)
On 07/07/2011 18:01, Chris Partridge wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Is the paper in the vault the contract - or the record of the contract?
> So, for example, if you destroy the paper, does the law say you have
> destroyed the contract?
>
> Chris
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Bennett
>> Sent: 07 July 2011 17:37
>> To: [ontolog-forum]
>> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Why most classifications are fuzzy
>>
>> David,
>>
>> There is no problem describing financial products ontologically.
>> Calipers are not a requirement. All financial products are contracts, and
>> contracts are a real thing regardless of whether they consist of paper in
> a
>> vault (as a few still do) or are maintained electronically.
>>
>> If you don't think contracts are real, try breaking one :)
>>
>> The dimensions along which they are defined are, as you rightly suggest,
>> where it gets interesting. One look at the ISO 10962 Classification of
> Financial
>> Instruments standard will show what a challenge it is to try and
> articificially
>> shoe-horn the whole lot into one dimension - you simply can't.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On 07/07/2011 16:21, David Eddy wrote:
>>> John -
>>>
>>> On 2011-07-06, at 12:45 PM, John F. Sowa wrote:
>>>
>>>> And a warning: Unless you can find an immutable law of nature that
>>>> creates a classification, don't expect it to be a solid foundation
>>>> for a "standard ontology".
>>> Agreed.
>>>
>>> My view of (imagined) reality has been largely financial services
>>> (e.g. mutual funds, brokerage, banking,& various forms of insurance).
>>> In my career, I have only worked directly for a single firm that
>>> actually made a physical product (junk jewelry)...
>>> otherwise everything has been paper pushing, describing various facets
>>> of non-dimensional products.
>>>
>>> Quite naturally, since these industries are all conjured out of thin
>>> air, there are no natural laws to impose organizational discipline.
>>>
>>> From what I've seen, "organization" is largely the last minute panic
>>> to make the next deadline. Does tend to leave a chaotic residue which
>>> only gets worse over time.
>>>
>>>
>>> Since this ontology interest has arisen, it has been rattling around
>>> in the back of my mind if ontologies can be applied to things like
>>> financial "products."
>>>
>>>
>>> Personally I vacillate between describing financial "products" as
>>> either "non-dimensional" or "N-dimensional." In any case these
>>> products are stuff that cannot be put on a scale& weighted or have a
>>> caliper applied to them. It's just information which as far as I know
>>> we have no idea how to measure other than silly things like "lines of
>>> code."
>>>
>>> ___________________
>>> David Eddy
>>> deddy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> --
>> Mike Bennett
>> Director
>> Hypercube Ltd.
>> 89 Worship Street
>> London EC2A 2BF
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> (07)
--
Mike Bennett
Director
Hypercube Ltd.
89 Worship Street
London EC2A 2BF
Tel: +44 (0) 20 7917 9522
Mob: +44 (0) 7721 420 730
www.hypercube.co.uk
Registered in England and Wales No. 2461068 (08)
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