Hi Ron,
I got this snippet from GoodRelations at
the URL you gave:
GoodRelations is a language that can be used to describe very precisely what your business is offering. Some people call
GoodRelations a "data dictionary", others prefer "schema"
or "ontology". The name, however, is not important. Important is that
you can use GoodRelations to create a small data package that describes your products and their features and prices, your stores
and opening hours, payment options
and the like.
You simply paste this data package into
your Web page using W3C's RDFa
format. That's all!
That sounds like good news in itself! However,
the point I was trying to raise is that, AFTER formalizing each column on the
form, new thoughts, products, requests, opportunities, special purchases, and a
zillion other unplanned things can and ALWAYS do happen to a business. Every
business is a moving target, adapting shifting and changing to the economic
variances they cannot control but can manage through better records.
The problem is that the standards (Good
Relations as well as others) cant possibly predefine every contingency that a
business finds itself in. The business with a fixed offering and a fixed
customer base has a fixed lifetime before new methods, technologies and players
enter the same market. The change is rapid and intense.
Summary: every business IT system changes
faster than the database modeling crew can anticipate. Therefore there are
always loose text fields for comments, descriptions, CRM relationships,
delivery methods and dates, and all kinds of other uncontrollable, changing
situations in the environment.
Businesses have lots of text in their
databases. What can be done with that text?
-Rich
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper
EnglishLogicKernel.com
Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ron Wheeler
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011
8:54 AM
To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum]
Modeling a money transferring scenario
Does this answer any of the questions about invoices,
customers, etc.
http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/
Ron
On 07/01/2011 9:44 AM, Zhuk, Yefim wrote:
Rich,
Most
of these items are pre-defined types that have type ID or abbreviated names in
the data records.
Unstructured
text fields in our data records are more exceptions than the rule.
I
think we’ve switched from the main subject of the forum and maybe at this
point can communicate directly.
With
my greatest respect,
Yefim
(Jeff)
Yefim,
How do you handle line item descriptions
on invoices, discounts for specified customers, special price events, labor
tracking by product-customer-activity, or other unstructured text fields?
Curiously,
-Rich
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper
EnglishLogicKernel.com
Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
Rich,
In
our world most of actual data records are filled in with the numbers (very
little if not zero semantic value) but this can be different for other
companies where your methodology would make a lot of sense.
Thank
you for clarifications,
Yefim
(Jeff)
Hi Yefim,
I wasn't suggesting the data model
be analyzed and reused - though fragments of that model could be clustered and
usefully employed.
Instead, look at the actual data itself, the
zillions of rows that got actually stored in each column by people who were
trying to designate some aspect of reality to the
<computer/reader/analysts>. Look for ways to leverage the domains
as actually experienced.
The data model describes the programmers' view, but
the actual data comprise the users' views. Not what was asked for, but
what was given in response to each domain as presented to the users during the
lifetime of the old database.
Most system data models in need of a major upgrade are
old, and need to be reworked, split, enhanced or even scrapped completely.
But the experience of the people who used the system, and the experience
of those that <managed/used/analyzed> the system, is to some extent
preserved in their language as used in the actual data.
People responded to the old system by attempting to
record and designate things that, while not requested specifically, were
important enough for them to record. Those concepts are in the
unstructured text columns from the database, and even from some of the
structured columns where multiple interpretations were rife.
The collection of those experienced concepts should be
at least considered for the next generation of system development, which will
likely have some semantic content, even if limited by the short steps we know
how to take into semantics.
One useful thing to do is to list the concepts you
recognize in the database, and use it to guide writing the requirements document
so you can test for completeness or conformance with known experiences.
HTH,
-Rich
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper
EnglishLogicKernel.com
Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Zhuk, Yefim
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 2:26 PM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Modeling a money transferring scenario
Rich,
Thank you so much for your response and very
interesting recommendations.
When we just started, we thought about using data
models as an initial point for ontology development. It didn't work exactly as
we planned. One of the reasons was that data models only represent some pieces
of information, while some other pieces and relationships are captured by
business logics in the applications.
Only after we've built some initial ontology skeleton,
we were able to benefit from the synchronization between the data and ontology
models. This is two-directional process. It's a manual process so far, as
initial data design didn't have in mind to bring up semantic values.
I think that to elevate information to the knowledge
level, we not only need better algorithms, standards and tools. One of the
first steps is to improve the culture of capturing data in the first place. If
we want computers to understand information, we need to be more precise and
semantically rich in expressing this information.
Then, your methodology and algorithms would work much
more efficiently on databases created by a new school of DBAs.
Thank you again,
Yefim (Jeff)
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Rich Cooper
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 4:05 PM
To: '[ontolog-forum] '
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Modeling a money
transferring scenario
Hi Yefim,
Do you have history databases (preferably large ones)
with the data
available for examination? You can detect
relationships among the columns
by partitioning the column data values into groups
with similarities in
syntax and/or semantics. One way to do this is
just to sort the column
values, then group the ones that are identical. That
reduces the variety by
the incidence factor. Then find groups with
identical signatures, using
various templates to generalize or specialize each
template from each group
of values.
Iterate until the classes and relationships are known
better. THEN develop
an ontology that covers at LEAST those explicit
examples, handling each one
in a responsive way.
Take a look at
www.Englishlogickernel.com/patent-7-209-923-B1.PDF
(copy and paste into your browser URL slot)
The specification describes a way to discover the
existing classes and
relationships among the transactions you know are
really being performed.
At least that way your ontology will start with
conformance to actual needs,
and you can add lots of ornaments as you wish.
You can theorize about the
data, experiment to see if your theories are valid,
classify more deeply
based on the column value differences within each
class, and observe the way
data was entered by the very people who will enter
data into your new
ontology.
To discover classes and relationships among patent
documents as an example,
use the free downloadable Elk for Patents program
suite.
HTH,
-Rich
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper
EnglishLogicKernel.com
Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Zhuk, Yefim
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 12:33 PM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Modeling a money
transferring scenario
I can share some initial steps of working on the Loan
ontology at Sallie Mae
and participating in the collaborative work on
financial ontology together
with EDMC and some other institutions.
1. Start with the main classes and subclasses like:
Actor (Customer, Borrower, etc.)
Event (FinancialTransaction, etc.)
Account (CheckingAccount, CreditAccount, etc.)
Currency (USD, etc.)
2. Start establishing relationships between the
classes:
Customer transfers Currency to CheckingAccount
3. Create the rules to determine anomalies, fraud
issues, etc.
If ....
-------------------
While creating the rules, you realize that you need to
add and to change
your ontology.
Do this.
Remember, that you create your ontology for a specific
purpose, so make the
closest loop to check if this purpose is met.
Hope, this helps you started,
Yefim (Jeff)
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Selcuk Bozdag
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 7:29 AM
To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ontolog-forum] Modeling a money transferring
scenario
Hi ontologs,
I would like to get your ideas about modeling a
financial
organization's (e.g. a bank) money transaction
ontology using OWL
(1). Suppose that a bank wants to track the accounts
of the customers
in order to determine anomalies, fraud issues or just
to ensure that
everything is OK at the end of the day. I have come up
with a solution
which caused a discussion among my colleagues mostly
ended with a
disagreement. Right below I am giving only a clipped
portion of the
draft ontology at a glance.
The absolute classes(i.e. concepts) are Bank, Money,
Customer and
Account. When it comes to represent a money transfer
between two
accounts, I suggested to create another class named
"MoneyTransfer" on
which one can create object properties such as
transferDate, amount
etc. On the flip side, others put the MoneyTransfer
class aside and
preferred to create an object property named "transfersMoney"
which
has a domain and range of Account. However it is
obvious that
transfersMoney property is just a relation between to
individuals
representing none of the date and amount information.
I would greatly appreciate if you could explain your point
of view and
show me what the alternatives could possibly be. I
also would be
thankful if you refer any other ontology regarding
that issue.
Cheers,
Selcuk
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