Yefim,
How do you handle line item descriptions
on invoices, discounts for specified customers, special price events, labor
tracking by product-customer-activity, or other unstructured text fields?
Curiously,
-Rich
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper
EnglishLogicKernel.com
Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
From:
ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Zhuk, Yefim
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011
3:09 PM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum]
Modeling a money transferring scenario
Rich,
In our world most of
actual data records are filled in with the numbers (very little if not zero
semantic value) but this can be different for other companies where your
methodology would make a lot of sense.
Thank you for
clarifications,
Yefim (Jeff)
From:
ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rich Cooper
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011
5:54 PM
To: '[ontolog-forum] '
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum]
Modeling a money transferring scenario
Hi Yefim,
I wasn't suggesting the data model be analyzed and reused - though
fragments of that model could be clustered and usefully employed.
Instead, look at the actual data itself, the zillions of rows
that got actually stored in each column by people who were trying to designate
some aspect of reality to the <computer/reader/analysts>. Look for
ways to leverage the domains as actually experienced.
The data model describes the programmers' view, but the actual data
comprise the users' views. Not what was asked for, but what was given in
response to each domain as presented to the users during the lifetime of the
old database.
Most system data models in need of a major upgrade are old, and need to
be reworked, split, enhanced or even scrapped completely. But the
experience of the people who used the system, and the experience of those that
<managed/used/analyzed> the system, is to some extent preserved in their
language as used in the actual data.
People responded to the old system by attempting to record and
designate things that, while not requested specifically, were important enough
for them to record. Those concepts are in the unstructured text columns
from the database, and even from some of the structured columns where multiple
interpretations were rife.
The collection of those experienced concepts should be at least
considered for the next generation of system development, which will likely
have some semantic content, even if limited by the short steps we know how to
take into semantics.
One useful thing to do is to list the concepts you recognize in the
database, and use it to guide writing the requirements document so you can test
for completeness or conformance with known experiences.
HTH,
-Rich
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper
EnglishLogicKernel.com
Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Zhuk, Yefim
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 2:26 PM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Modeling a money transferring scenario
Rich,
Thank you so much for your response and very interesting
recommendations.
When we just started, we thought about using data models as an initial
point for ontology development. It didn't work exactly as we planned. One of
the reasons was that data models only represent some pieces of information,
while some other pieces and relationships are captured by business logics in
the applications.
Only after we've built some initial ontology skeleton, we were able to
benefit from the synchronization between the data and ontology models. This is
two-directional process. It's a manual process so far, as initial data design
didn't have in mind to bring up semantic values.
I think that to elevate information to the knowledge level, we not only
need better algorithms, standards and tools. One of the first steps is to
improve the culture of capturing data in the first place. If we want computers
to understand information, we need to be more precise and semantically rich in
expressing this information.
Then, your methodology and algorithms would work much more efficiently
on databases created by a new school
of DBAs.
Thank you again,
Yefim (Jeff)
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rich Cooper
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 4:05 PM
To: '[ontolog-forum] '
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Modeling a money transferring scenario
Hi Yefim,
Do you have history databases (preferably large ones) with the data
available for examination? You can detect relationships among the
columns
by partitioning the column data values into groups with similarities in
syntax and/or semantics. One way to do this is just to sort the
column
values, then group the ones that are identical. That reduces the
variety by
the incidence factor. Then find groups with identical signatures,
using
various templates to generalize or specialize each template from each
group
of values.
Iterate until the classes and relationships are known better.
THEN develop
an ontology that covers at LEAST those explicit examples, handling each
one
in a responsive way.
Take a look at
www.Englishlogickernel.com/patent-7-209-923-B1.PDF
(copy and paste into your browser URL slot)
The specification describes a way to discover the existing classes and
relationships among the transactions you know are really being
performed.
At least that way your ontology will start with conformance to actual
needs,
and you can add lots of ornaments as you wish. You can theorize
about the
data, experiment to see if your theories are valid, classify more
deeply
based on the column value differences within each class, and observe
the way
data was entered by the very people who will enter data into your new
ontology.
To discover classes and relationships among patent documents as an
example,
use the free downloadable Elk for Patents program suite.
HTH,
-Rich
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper
EnglishLogicKernel.com
Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Zhuk,
Yefim
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 12:33 PM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Modeling a money transferring scenario
I can share some initial steps of working on the Loan ontology at
Sallie Mae
and participating in the collaborative work on financial ontology
together
with EDMC and some other institutions.
1. Start with the main classes and subclasses like:
Actor (Customer, Borrower, etc.)
Event (FinancialTransaction, etc.)
Account (CheckingAccount, CreditAccount, etc.)
Currency (USD, etc.)
2. Start establishing relationships between the classes:
Customer transfers Currency to CheckingAccount
3. Create the rules to determine anomalies, fraud issues, etc.
If ....
-------------------
While creating the rules, you realize that you need to add and to
change
your ontology.
Do this.
Remember, that you create your ontology for a specific purpose, so make
the
closest loop to check if this purpose is met.
Hope, this helps you started,
Yefim (Jeff)
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Selcuk
Bozdag
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 7:29 AM
To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ontolog-forum] Modeling a money transferring scenario
Hi ontologs,
I would like to get your ideas about modeling a financial
organization's (e.g. a bank) money transaction ontology using OWL
(1). Suppose that a bank wants to track the accounts of the customers
in order to determine anomalies, fraud issues or just to ensure that
everything is OK at the end of the day. I have come up with a solution
which caused a discussion among my colleagues mostly ended with a
disagreement. Right below I am giving only a clipped portion of the
draft ontology at a glance.
The absolute classes(i.e. concepts) are Bank, Money, Customer and
Account. When it comes to represent a money transfer between two
accounts, I suggested to create another class named "MoneyTransfer"
on
which one can create object properties such as transferDate, amount
etc. On the flip side, others put the MoneyTransfer class aside and
preferred to create an object property named "transfersMoney"
which
has a domain and range of Account. However it is obvious that
transfersMoney property is just a relation between to individuals
representing none of the date and amount information.
I would greatly appreciate if you could explain your point of view and
show me what the alternatives could possibly be. I also would be
thankful if you refer any other ontology regarding that issue.
Cheers,
Selcuk
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