[ontolog-forum] Semiotic Web: formerly "Looking for a razor"

["AzamatAbdoullaev" <abdoul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

A. Paschke wrote: "You might be interested in the Pragmatic Web community

Pragmatic Web see http://www.pragmaticweb.info/"

It looks the links don't work properly.

Anyway, i still think this issue deserves a good study and discussion on the both fora, suggesting to separate it as a "Semiotic Web" common thread.

Lets start from the assumptions:

1. the World Wide Web is a global symbolic system;

2. Any symbolic system implies Syntax, Semantics, and Pragmatics;

3. Syntax deals with the symbols (signs and substitutes, URIs, variables, numbers and marks),

4. Semantics deals with the meanings (senses, mental signs and natural signs),

5. Pragmatics deals with the context of usage (actions and behavior).

Then the Syntactic Web is mostly about an HTML-based Web; the Semantic Web is mostly about an RDFS-based Web; and the Pragmatic Web is mostly about the Web of Content and Things.

By its very definition, the Semiotic Web should involve the mappings between symbols/signs and the real world things, leaving aside the key component of human meanings, constructs (ideas and images). This is largely envisioned as the Future Internet of Things and People and Their Actions.

So a rhetorical question is: why we need another "goldbrick", while really needing the Integrated Web of Data, Content, Entities and People asking for the Standard Ontology and Semantics.

Some food for thought in the weekend

Azamat Abdoullaev    

----- Original Message -----

From: Adrian Paschke

To: '[ontolog-forum] '

Cc: sean.barker@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 7:47 PM

Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Looking for a razor

You might be interested in the Pragmatic Web community

 

Pragmatic Web see http://www.pragmaticweb.info/

 

and the 5th AIS SigPrag Int. Conference on Pragmatic Web (ICPW 2010)

 

http://i-semantics.tugraz.at/pragmatic_web_track

 

-Adrian

--------------------------------

www.corporate-semantic-web.de

 

 

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Von: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Simon Spero
Gesendet: Montag, 9. August 2010 22:41
An: [ontolog-forum]
Betreff: Re: [ontolog-forum] Looking for a razor

 

Does Semiotics fit the bill?

See e.g.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/peirce-semiotics/

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiotics

On Aug 9, 2010 3:18 PM, "sean barker" <sean.barker@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

 

Is there a named area of study which considers the specifically process of of interpreting a sign together with the shared knowledge needed by two agents who communicate (using signs)?

 

At one extreme, Agent 1 goes into a grocer's shop, and presses buttons on Agent 2 for "3", "red", and "apples", and a simple mechanical system delivers the fruit. Here the knowledge is all on Agent 1's side, and includes both the semantics of "3", "red", and "apples", and knowledge about vending machines.

 

At the other extreme, the two agents are people, say an American tourist having got off the Paris RER in one of the suburbs, and an Algerian shop keeper. In this, the American uses knowledge about common social systems, and therefore identifies the context "shop" and so knows the appropriateness of attempting to buy apples. On the other, the shop keeper identifies the probable language from knowledge of a range of languages, translates the phrasing to a probable match "Trois" "Pommes" and "Rouge" (including allowing for different syntactical structures in each language), and so on. Here both agents use a considerable amount of knowledge to be able to communicate at all. (The complete sequence of "Hungarian Tourist Guide" sketches by Monty Python can be used to extend the argument).

 

The reason for the question is that the semantic web relies on symbols which are effectively decoded in advance (are the fixed buttons in the first example or URIs in RDF). A major goal of the semantic web is to broker communication between agents which either use common symbols or equivalent symbols (sameAs). However, the business processes which stand behind such operations ground the symbols in the artefacts and actions of the systems operating those processes. Communication is reliably only if the symbols used by both agents are grounded in the same way - I note that a number of the arguments on this forum seem to be between two camps, one assuming that the grounding problem is trivial, the other assuming that it is extremely difficult. Therefore I am looking for a razor that can cut between the "ontologies as a formal system" and "ontology term grounding" parts of the discussion, and so ensure that both parts are solved.

 

I should also throw in my view is that the ontology classes used by a business process are exactly those classes which label the alternative routes onward from a decision process, and therefore define the grounding of terms.

Sean Barker

Bristol

 

 

 

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