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Re: [ontolog-forum] Triadic Sign Relations

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "doug foxvog" <doug@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 01:04:15 -0400 (EDT)
Message-id: <58174.74.96.97.43.1282021455.squirrel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

On Mon, August 16, 2010 14:36, AzamatAbdoullaev said:
> RC wrote:
>> ...
>> "Another interesting aspect of your answer is that you use the word
>> "thing" as the most general of all thingish words like object, plurality,
>> stuff, material .; is that your mental image of the word "thing", as the
>> most abstract of all objects?    (01)

> ASHA: Yes, Thing refers to the Universal Class of all sorts of entities,
> implying the universal property of all entities, whereas Nothing refers to
> the Null Class .    (02)

There are many definitions of "thing".  It is useful to have a common
term for the universal class and many ontologies have used the word
"thing".    (03)

> RC: Can a "thing" include an action, method, plan, history of the
> foregoing?"    (04)

> ASHA: In the broad sense, it is a substance, state, change, process as far
> as "every sign is also a thing, for what is not a thing is nothing at
> all".    (05)

Extending this, classes/types, relations/predicates, and functions are
also "things" if they are in the universe of discourse.  Cyc's #$Thing
includes all these as instances as well as individuals.    (06)

> In NL, words are the signs of ideas and images, thoughts and feelings,
> while the mental signs are the similitudes of things.    (07)

> The beauty of machines consists in that they don't require the mental
> signs (ideas and images) as the medium whereby symbols (physical signals)
> could signify the real things.    (08)

They do require symbols other than the symbols used by humans, similar to
the significants in human minds.    (09)

-- doug    (010)

> Azamat Abdoullaev
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Rich Cooper
>   To: '[ontolog-forum] '
>   Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 12:20 AM
>   Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Triadic Sign Relations
>
>
>   Hi Azamat,
>
>
>
>   You wrote:
>
>
>
>   "That confuses me no end if Peirceans can't tie the theory to some
> commonly understood reality for me.  Is there a more fruitful
> description that explains the language used and chosen for that
> representation?"
>
>   Rich,
>
>   The nature of signs and symbols and significations, their definition,
> elements, and types, was mainly established by Aristotle, Augustine, and
> Aquinas.
>
>   According to these classic sources, significance is a relationship
> between two sorts of things: signs and the kinds of things they signify
> (intend, express or mean), where one term necessarily causes something
> else to come to the mind. Distinguishing natural signs and conventional
> signs, the traditional theory of signs sets the following threefold
> partition of things:
>
>     1.. There are things that are just things, not any sign at all;
>     2.. There are things that are also signs of other things (as natural
> signs of the physical world and mental signs of the mind);
>     3.. There are things that are always signs, as languages (natural and
> artificial) and other cultural nonverbal symbols, as documents, money,
> ceremonies, and rites. see a brief but comprehensive account,
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign
>   Azamat Abdoullaev
>
>
>
>   Thanks for your view on this; it helps me compare and contrast my own
> theoretical understanding with yours.
>
>
>
>   So a familiar sign S represents another sign S2 in one agent's mind, yet
> can represent only S itself in another agent's mind, while
> simultaneously representing S3 (money, a document .) to still another
> agent?
>
>
>
>   Another interesting aspect of your answer is that you use the word
> "thing" as the most general of all thingish words like object,
> plurality, stuff, material .; is that your mental image of the word
> "thing", as the most abstract of all objects?
>
>
>
>   Can a "thing" include an action, method, plan, history of the foregoing?
>
>
>
>   Thanks for the stimulating viewpoint,
>
>   -Rich
>
>
>
>   Sincerely,
>
>   Rich Cooper
>
>   EnglishLogicKernel.com
>
>   Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
>
>   9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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>    (011)


=============================================================
doug foxvog    doug@xxxxxxxxxx   http://ProgressiveAustin.org    (012)

"I speak as an American to the leaders of my own nation. The great
initiative in this war is ours. The initiative to stop it must be ours."
    - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
=============================================================    (013)


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