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Re: [ontolog-forum] standard ontology

To: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Patrick Cassidy" <pat@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 19:17:57 -0500
Message-id: <0e5b01c993b9$d91c1960$8b544c20$@com>
Matthew,
   I would like to expand on one point:    (01)

> [MW]  
> However, what is also true is that you need nothing like as
> sophisticated as
> Cyc to do this, or as sophisticated as most people here would like to
> be doing.    (02)

I agree that for many purposes related to information integration one
doesn't need a sophisticated logic-based ontology, *if* the users form a
community that has enough communication and common background so that they
know how to interpret the ontology elements.  But for the general case,
where human users will be highly diverse and have no communication, it is
important that the knowledge representation itself have enough detail to
make the meanings of the ontology elements unambiguous to the machine as
well as to the human users.  That is the case I am concerned with, and that
is the reason why nothing less than FOL will have enough expressivity to be
sure that the data structures are unambiguous even to people with no
background in common with the creators of the data.    (03)

Pat    (04)

Patrick Cassidy
MICRA, Inc.
908-561-3416
cell: 908-565-4053
cassidy@xxxxxxxxx    (05)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Matthew West
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:09 PM
> To: '[ontolog-forum] '
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] standard ontology
> 
> Dear John,
> 
> > I strongly agree with Randall.  And I would add that Pat C has not
> > yet given a single shred of evidence for the claim that an upper
> > ontology is a prerequisite (or even useful) for interoperability.
> 
> [MW] Well let me try then, at least as long as we are talking about
> interoperability between computer systems in general, in the process
> industries we have found an upper ontology (ISO 15926) very useful. To
> be
> specific, when two people are fighting over what a term like "pump"
> means,
> by asking each to place it in the context of an upper ontology, you can
> find
> out that one of them is talking about a physical object with a serial
> number, and the other is talking about a class of physical object you
> find
> in a catalogue. It's really simple stuff, but that is where I think
> most of
> us here get it wrong. The big bucks is real easy to find in systems
> integration. This stuff is so important that they spend huge sums of
> money
> doing it badly, rather than much less doing it well, just because it
> has to
> be done.
> 
> However, what is also true is that you need nothing like as
> sophisticated as
> Cyc to do this, or as sophisticated as most people here would like to
> be
> doing. You don't need complex axioms (you hardly need simple ones). You
> just
> need a basic upper ontology, so that as you bring the ontologies of the
> systems you are integrating together within it, you see how  the
> different
> concepts they contain relate to each other in a wider context. Even
> something as basic as Ian presented can be enormously helpful if you
> know
> how to apply it (but I would rather have something with a little more
> meat
> on the bone).
> 
> Regards
> 
> Matthew West
> Information  Junction
> Tel: +44 560 302 3685
> Mobile: +44 750 3385279
> matthew.west@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.matthew-west.org.uk/
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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>     (06)


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