Ron wrote:
It appears that there is very little enthusiasm for real work here.
> Endless arguments around the edges of each topic seem to be the flavour
> of the month. There is very little interest is highlighting areas of
> agreement except to buttress some argument against someone else's ideas (01)
It is too pessimistic. IMO, the Forum happened to collect most advanced
minds in the sphere of ontology and ontology engineering. With high
organization, the Group can solve most challenging tasks, delivering
outstanding products. An obstacle to the advancement is one talky soul,
talking just for talk, firmly believing that words speak louder than
actions. In many Russian village, you may find places where few local senior
women, babushkas, sit all day talking about nothing. The content and the
purpose are of little importance. What is important, the act of exchanging
rumors, anecdotes, and gossips, the process of conversation. Usually, these
closed country fora led by gabbiest babushkas, full of trivial news.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Wheeler" <rwheeler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Is there something I missed? (02)
>I had really hoped that the wiki would help this group to develop some
> more fully formed results if not conclusions.
>
> It appears that there is very little enthusiasm for real work here.
> Endless arguments around the edges of each topic seem to be the flavour
> of the month. There is very little interest is highlighting areas of
> agreement except to buttress some argument against someone else's ideas.
>
> It is clearly a smart group of individuals but it is hard to point to
> any achievements in understanding.
> Perhaps I am not being completely fair or not following the discussions
> closely enough.
> I have not seen anyone write "You are completely correct, I was wrong.
> Thank you for point out the errors of my ways".
>
> I have seen some very interesting discussions but they central messages
> are not being recorded.
>
> Ron
>
> Azamat wrote:
>>
>> Pat,
>>
>> I have to recognize your sophisticated versatility in many other
>> sophistical refutations, not only in ad hominen. Sometimes, it is not
>> so bad to be a formal logician.
>>
>>
>>
>> Once more, "The Forum dedicated itself to some high cause and
>> activity, which seems increasingly drenching by offhand
>> debates" plainly meant that no need to hotly discuss here such
>> extraneous issues as the SW languages. All this stuff, RDF with its
>> sequels, OWL with its subsequences, and what next, has been openly
>> criticised on the SW forum; since for any unprejudiced mind it is
>> plain that the formal languages are conceptually defective as real
>> ontologies and could not be the genuine standards. And here John has
>> the big point. But let the dead bury their dead.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> Let me remind that the whole thread was initiated by Steven Ray with
>> the large purpose; it is of use to repeat his message: [We have now
>> established the overall objective for this year’s ontology summit
>> (see:
>> _http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2009#nid1Q2F_ )
>> and the following conversation breakout suggests itself. What might be
>> productive is to have people sign up for one or more of these aspects
>> of the problem, with the aim of producing some concrete results and
>> recommendations prior to the face-to-face meeting. Specifically:
>>
>> 1) Background:
>>
>> Compilation of existing ontological representations of standards,
>> along with their associated definitions – conformance classes, testing
>> suites and methodologies
>>
>> 2) Participants - identification and outreach:
>>
>> Organizations that should participate or be represented, e.g. NATO,
>> UN/CEFACT, ISO, OAGi, NCBO, OASIS, OMG, …
>>
>> 3) Technical discussion
>>
>> 1. What is the role of an ontology in establishing
>> a standard?
>>
>> 2. What kind of constraints or rules [standards?]
>> should be applied to ontologies that are used to establish a standard?
>>
>> 3. What kinds of standards lend themselves to the
>> use of ontologies as their representation?
>>
>> 4. What ontological languages are best suited to
>> represent standards?
>>
>> 4) Strategic vision and roadmap
>>
>> Articulating a stretch vision, and the steps
>> needed to get there. What do we think information standards are going
>> to look like 20 years from now? Who are the movers to get us there?
>> Who are the enablers and stakeholders? This is an environment where we
>> can be bold.
>>
>> I encourage everyone to identify themselves with one or more of these
>> activities, and we can set up wiki pages to hold the results. Just as
>> last year, we will especially need people to synthesize the
>> conversations under each of these activities on a wiki page, as we
>> proceed. If we divide up these tasks, we can make a significant
>> contribution in a short time, without having to abandon our day jobs!
>>
>> Let’s see how much we can accomplish together. ]
>>
>> Then I suggested: [For the rest 2-3 months, the Forum has time to
>> debate and decide on a principal matter: which general world model is
>> most fitting to science, arts, technology, commerce and industry, to
>> conclude if "Standard Ontology: a single malt or blended".] I
>> propose to avoid digressions, diversions and excursions, if there is a
>> serious intention to deliver some outsanding ontology product, or at
>> least to give it a good try.
>>
>>
>>
>> Azamat Abdoullaev
>>
>> EIS Encyclopedic Intelligent Systems Ltd
>>
>> Pahos, Moscow
>>
>> http://www.eis.com.cy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
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>
>
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