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Re: [ontolog-forum] Car attitudes

To: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Gary Berg-Cross" <gary.berg-cross@xxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 23:36:41 -0400
Message-id: <330E3C69AFABAE45BD91B28F80BE32C90190754C@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Pat and John (and Kathy) provided some useful clarifications to my earlier 
comment.  I didn't have time earlier to follow up but here are some thoughts.    (01)


I'm glad that Pat brought in Dennett's concept of  "intentional stance", which 
I should have cited as part of the conversation. And I agree generally with Pat 
that:    (02)



>So while we may often -
>perhaps always - adopt this stance because we are
>ignorant of the underlying (aka "real")
>mechanisms, intentional language can still be
>true, in some cases. A gap between a theory and
>(the world described by) physics need not imply a
>gap between that theory and reality.    (03)


But on the other hand, it seems to me, we can add that  when we are 
constructing ontologies to capture the "reality" of reality we will find it 
useful to exclude an intentional stance for certain classes of object, 
situations.  That is we have to fight a stance natural to us in the persuit of 
scientific understanding in some areas.  On the other hand I think that it is 
an essential concept for other aspects of the real world....just harder to 
prove and get those proper sets of things coordinated with reality.    (04)


I think that John's advice, on a more careful selection of terms to handle the 
conceptsn is, as usual, an improvement.    (05)

>The word 'bias' suggests that it is bad.  A neutral word would be
>'tendency'.  And a positive term would be 'sensitivity':    (06)

By way of explanaition I can say that Tversky and Kahneman's have used "bias" 
so much in regards to their experiments, demonstrated these tendencies, that I 
fell prey to it.  Tendency captures more of the complex, unfolding processes 
involved in how our behvaiors are realized.    (07)


Gary Berg-Cross    (08)


________________________________    (09)

From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of John F. Sowa
Sent: Fri 8/3/2007 1:20 PM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Car attitudes    (010)



Gary,    (011)

The word 'bias' suggests that it is bad.  A neutral word would be
'tendency'.  And a positive term would be 'sensitivity':    (012)

> Yes, many of our inanimate "friends" seem to have qualities that don't
> reduce to the standard explanations.  In part this shows our lack of
> understanding about the states they get into as complex mechanisms along
> with what seems to be the human bias to see agency in our universe.    (013)

The assumption that agency somehow springs into existence with the
advent of human beings or even with the advent of life postulates
a fundamental discontinuity in nature.  Such a discontinuity would
truly be a "miracle".    (014)

Perhaps miracles do occur.  But continuity is the default assumption,
in which the more developed forms of agency are based on simpler forms
that occur in physical processes.    (015)

A feedback mechanism, such as the governor in a steam engine, was
considered miraculous in the early 19th century, because it enabled
a simple mechanical device to do the work of a human being.  Before
it was invented, some human had to keep a constant watch on the heat,
pressure, and speed.  The slightest lapse in attention could lead to
an explosion or some other failure, minor or catastrophic.    (016)

Similar feedback mechanisms occur naturally in hurricanes and some
kinds of chemical processes.  Biologists are actively exploring them
to determine how various combinations could lead to self-replicating
life forms.    (017)

John    (018)


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