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Re: [ontolog-forum] Terminology Question concerning Web Architecture and

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Jack Teller <drjackteller@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 18:07:29 -0400
Message-id: <46AA6CA1.509@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Patrick, could you elaborate on your reference to Stanley Fish?    (01)

Thank you,  Jack    (02)

Patrick Durusau wrote:
> Randall,
>
> Randall R Schulz wrote:
>   
>> On Saturday 21 July 2007 12:59, Azamat wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> Rarely have i seen such obtusness. Pat has said many interesting
>>> things, but this statement reflects the whole point of the Semantic
>>> Web. No Real Meanings, no Semantic Web, or  no  Universal Ontology,
>>> no Intelligent Web. That's it.
>>>
>>> Azamat
>>>     
>>>       
>> If this is the statement it seems to be, namely one of complete 
>> pessimism about the entire Semantic Web endeavor (and apparently, any 
>> form of computational intelligence), what motivates your participation 
>> in this forum?
>>
>>   
>>     
> I am sure Azamat will formulate his own response but I can answer for 
> myself since I share the opinion that there is no "universal ontology."
>
> First, I don't think belief in a universal ontology has anything to do 
> with "computational intelligence." It certainly is irrelevant to any 
> claims of human intelligence, the possessors of which have been 
> demonstrated to believe in any number of ontologies, perhaps even 
> contradictory ones.
>
> Second, and more pragmatically, if a client finds that use of "Semantic 
> Web" technologies provides a useful result for whatever purpose they 
> have in mind, what is their (or my) belief in a universal ontology have 
> to do with it? Or the connection of such a universal ontology to "real" 
> meaning? Interesting questions for a coffee shop discussion but has 
> little to do with the results that motivate clients to pay for services.
>
> I say all that because the topic maps community has spent years (not as 
> many as the ontology community) hand wringing over the "big" issues when 
> the real questions that needed answering were what result does the use 
> of topic maps enable that isn't otherwise available and how does than 
> answer the needs of user X? 
>
> Granted, I take that position because I think meaning is in the eyes of 
> the user (cf. reader response criticism and Stanley Fish) but I also 
> suspect that pragmatically speaking, the question that any semantic 
> technology has to answer is of what use is it to the user in question? 
> It's formal correctness and answering the "big" questions won't save a 
> technology that has no real payoff for users.
>
> I participate because I wanted to learn the terminology and thinking 
> that underlies current ontology efforts. Whether those efforts are 
> "true" in some absolute sense of the world isn't a question that I worry 
> about. How those efforts may or may not have benefits for users, 
> however, is a question that concerns me.
>
> Hope you are having a great day!
>
> Patrick
>
>   
>> Randall Schulz
>>  
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>>   
>>     
>
>       (03)

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