Bill, (01)
Exactly. What if the ULO group can establish a test bed where each of
these different formalisms can be represented, explored, compared,
and evaluated in an executable environment (and in the context of
specific problems to solve, or solutions to implement)? This would be
valuable for everybody. (02)
Mills (03)
On Mar 11, 2006, at 5:58 PM, Bill Andersen wrote: (04)
> C'mon, Leo! You're spoiling my fun! And why do all of this work
> if it isn't fun? :-D
>
> Actually, I am serious about that test I mentioned. If some entity
> like DARPA or ARDA is looking for something worthwhile to do, I
> would consider a test such as this worthy of funding.
>
> On Mar 11, 2006, at 17:55 , Obrst, Leo J. wrote:
>
>> Bill,
>>
>> We are ALL on your side, because we have all gone through this so
>> many
>> times. We all firmly believe in the value and ultimate necessity of
>> Upper Ontologies -- because we have fought our way to this conclusion
>> the hard way. We just need to impress this experience on others who
>> have not yet undergone the baptism by fire. Teach them, not exorcise
>> them.
>>
>> Leo
>>
>> ps. So does this mean that relational databases don't already provide
>> everything that we need? ;)
>> _____________________________________________
>> Dr. Leo Obrst The MITRE Corporation, Information Semantics
>> lobrst@xxxxxxxxx Center for Innovative Computing & Informatics
>> Voice: 703-983-6770 7515 Colshire Drive, M/S H305
>> Fax: 703-983-1379 McLean, VA 22102-7508, USA
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: uos-convene-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:uos-convene-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bill
>> Andersen
>> Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 5:36 PM
>> To: Upper Ontology Summit convention
>> Subject: [uos-convene] The value of ULO
>>
>> Just a quick comment on Mills' comment:
>>
>> Before continuing, let me first say that I am happy that Mills is an
>> advocate for ontologies in general. Ok... but...
>>
>>> Bottom line: I applaud and encourage the efforts of this UO
>>> community. By coming together, I hope they deliver value. At the
>>> same
>>> time, I'm reserving judgement (or, remaining agnostic regarding the
>>> value, pending evidence), and am harboring a supposition that in the
>>> next year or so, technology may be emerging that will obviate UO
>>> arguments by subsuming all of these disparate approaches and
>>> subjecting them to tests of efficacy.
>>
>> I am having a very hard time understanding this comment. Short of
>> HAL-9000, just what technology might that be that will subsume UO or
>> "obviate UO arguments"?
>>
>> One of the things that has been systematically overlooked in these
>> discussions is that almost all of the ULOs under discussion here are
>> at least in part philosophically motivated. This includes at least
>> SUMO, Cyc, DOLCE, and Matt West's 4D ontology and to a lesser extent
>> PSL. They are so because the philosophers have been at this business
>> for 2500 years, long before the advent of the W3C. The tools of
>> mathematical logic and later computational logic were what were
>> needed to make this 2500 years of work effective.
>>
>> As for efficacy, I have been arguing the need for this since my first
>> posts to this mailing list. One comment that I have made more than a
>> couple times in different guises is that the value of ULO lies NOT
>> ONLY in semantic interoperability but has engineering advantages as
>> well for building individual ontologies. Our experience at OW has
>> been that we build better ontologies much faster (and thus at less
>> cost) than those who take a tabula rasa approach, no matter what
>> formalism they work in. That we have done this, you'll just have to
>> take my word as the work was either classified or FOUO.
>>
>> The good news is you don't have to take my word for it. I suggest we
>> set up an experiment by which teams of comparable expertise in their
>> chosen formalisms, given the same domain description and a fixed
>> amount of time, one using a ULO and one prohibited from doing so,
>> build a domain ontology to meet the description. Then, given the
>> same data sets, both are subject to a bank of blind competence
>> questions based solely on the domain description by parties
>> unfamiliar with the logical formalisms employed. We repeat the
>> experiment several times on different domains. As an added bonus, we
>> then take the resulting domain ontologies and, using them as starting
>> points, ask each team (ULO, and non-ULO) to *extend* them to a
>> different, but related domain. Then more competency questions.
>>
>> I know on which team I'll place my bet. Any takers?
>>
>> .bill
>>
>> Bill Andersen (andersen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
>> Chief Scientist
>> Ontology Works, Inc. (www.ontologyworks.com)
>> 3600 O'Donnell Street, Suite 600
>> Baltimore, MD 21224
>> Office: 410-675-1201
>> Cell: 443-858-6444
>>
>>
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>>
>
> Bill Andersen (andersen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
> Chief Scientist
> Ontology Works, Inc. (www.ontologyworks.com)
> 3600 O'Donnell Street, Suite 600
> Baltimore, MD 21224
> Office: 410-675-1201
> Cell: 443-858-6444
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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> uos-convene/
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> UpperOntologySummit
> (05)
Mills Davis
Managing Director
Project10X
202-667-6400
202-255-6655 cel
202-667-6512 fax
mdavis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (06)
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