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Re: [uom-ontology-std] FW: Quantity kinds

To: "John F. Sowa" <sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: uom-ontology-std <uom-ontology-std@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Ed Barkmeyer <edbark@xxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 14:21:51 -0400
Message-id: <4AA6A0BF.8040301@xxxxxxxx>
John F. Sowa wrote:
> EB> In particular, the VIM explicitly says that the magnitude of a
>  > quantity is not knowable; it is only measurable, and every measurement
>  > involves uncertainty.  This is absolutely true, and it is the gospel
>  > of the science.
>
> Not just the science of measurement, but *every* empirical science.
> This gets into serious questions of how granularity and uncertainty
> should be accommodated in an ontology.
>   
Yes.  The problem is that the scientific usage and the commercial usage 
are significantly different in this area.    (01)

> EB> But it means that you cannot say that a stretch of roadway is 1km
>  > in length; you must say that it is 1km plus-or-minus 5 cm, if that
>  > is the accuracy of your survey.  And similarly, the label on your
>  > Coke bottle that says "1 litre" and the label on your bag of
>  > potatoes that says "10 lbs" is, according to the VIM, meaningless
>  > without additional information.
>
> Such details are extremely dependent on the application -- they
> belong in the microtheories.  For example, if somebody's height
> is listed as 180 cm, the granularity would not be relevant in a
> medical record.  But if an airplane part has a length of 180 cm,
> a subcontractor that manufactures it must know the tolerance.
>   
Being careful, 'tolerance' and 'uncertainty' are entirely different 
things, as I mentioned in a previous email.  Tolerance is the allowable 
variance from the specified quantity, where that difference allows the 
measured object to meet the functional and physical requirements; 
uncertainty is the amount by which the measurement may be different from 
the actual magnitude of the quantity.  In complying with a tolerance, 
one has to ensure that the worst case measurement error gives a value 
that is still within the tolerance.    (02)

Tolerance is certainly application-dependent.  I don't think that 
'uncertainty' is application-dependent (per se). Uncertainty is 
dependent on the 'measurement', i.e., the measuring activity, and many 
aspects thereof: -- procedure, equipment, environment, etc.  I would 
prefer that the units of measure ontology not go deeply into 
'measurement' at all.  My point was that 'measurement' is the meat of 
the VIM, and that affects its way of modeling 'quantity'.    (03)

> EB> Are we making a formal ontology for measurement science,
>  > or a practical ontology for units of measure?
>
> Different kinds of "practical problems" will require different ways
> of treating (or ignoring) the tolerance.  It's probably impossible
> to accommodate all the ways in a single, fixed formal theory.
>   
Agree.  The question, however, is to what degree we need to deal with 
_uncertainy_.  That, for example, may determine how we deal with the 
concept 'quantity magnitude' -- the "unknowable" abstraction of the 
particular quantities that underlies the definition of 'measurement 
unit'.  (Or maybe it doesn't, and that is the question.)    (04)

The SI system is based on well-defined units, whose definitions are 
specific measurements of particular physical quanitities (with known 
uncertainties, I assume). And the VIM idea is that other measurements 
are compared to those measurements in "traceable" ways that accumulate 
the uncertainties involved.  And the idea is that the accumulated 
uncertainty is well within the tolerance of the application for which 
the measurement is being made.    (05)

If the nurse measures the patient's height at 180 cm, the nearest 
alternatives are 179cm and 181cm, which tells us what the tolerance is.  
The scale maker needs only to ensure that the uncertainties in the 
measurements produced by the scale are within a few millimetres, and 
typically only within the range 1-2.5m.  By comparison, when the 
machinist cuts the aluminum alloy bar to length at 180cm, the 
uncertainty may be within 0.02 mm.  The point is, as John observes, that 
the 'quantity value' "180cm" does not, in fact, refer to the same 
"measurement" in both cases.  "180 cm" means 1.8 times the particular 
measurement that is the SI metre, with some uncertainty, but the 
uncertainties in these two cases, and the "traces" for them, are 
significantly different.  We use the value "180cm" in practice, as if 
there were a 'quantity magnitude' to which it refers.  It is not clear 
to me that the VIM agrees that there is one.  According to the VIM, 
"180cm" refers to a part of a measurement -- the nominal value; and it 
is only meaningful in the context of that measurement.  Put in the terms 
I was using earlier, "180cm" refers to an equivalence class of height 
measures using medical office scales, and to a different equivalence 
class of mechanical part measures using precision machining equipment of 
a certain quality.    (06)

-Ed    (07)

-- 
Edward J. Barkmeyer                        Email: edbark@xxxxxxxx
National Institute of Standards & Technology
Manufacturing Systems Integration Division
100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8263                Tel: +1 301-975-3528
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8263                FAX: +1 301-975-4694    (08)

"The opinions expressed above do not reflect consensus of NIST, 
 and have not been reviewed by any Government authority."    (09)


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