John,
I did not prepare a formal report on the SysmL and OWL comparison and I
wouldn't have been able to release it if I had. My post in response to David
Price should give you an indication as to what I was trying to accomplish
and actually accomplished. Regarding opinion of engineers about what tools
they prefer this naturally is a function of experience and training. Ten
years ago engineers on large programs that I have direct experience with
resisted UML very strongly. By 2010 almost all of these engineers or their
replacements are very happy to use UML\SysML. In 2000 not only did engineers
resist UML but their efforts were unsuccessful. Huge sums of money were
spent with no positive return on investment. This is not the case now in the
situations where I have direct knowledge. I am sure other industry people
would have similar stories, their time lines may lag or lead the one I am
describing. This is one of the reasons I cannot report directly on my
experiments. (01)
By the way, as should be clear from everything that I have posted it should
be clear that I while I strongly believe and have evidence for the need for
HOL, I in no way think that engineers need to switch to some specific
archaic linear syntax suitable for logicians to prove things about HOL. In
my view they can at least use a graphic SysML based graphic syntax with some
extensions. Perhaps autopoietic systems can learn or be built so that they
can expel complex models (axiom sets) as clouds of gas, thereby eliminating
not only textual, but graphical syntax. (02)
- Henson (03)
-----Original Message-----
From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John F. Sowa
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 10:10 PM
To: ontology-summit@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] INCOSE Ontology Action Group, onto SysML/UML (04)
On 3/5/2012 3:36 PM, henson graves wrote:
> I personally have tasked two
> engineers with similar capability to build a model of the molecule
> Water in SysML and in OWL. Take a guess about the results. Also guess
> how well it can be done in either of these languages or other candidates. (05)
I'm sure that engineers can learn UML or SysML much faster and use it more
effectively and more accurately than OWL. But since you did the experiment,
I'd like to hear any further details you observed. Did you write a report
about them? (06)
And I'd also like to hear the opinions of the engineers about which
tool(s) they would prefer to use and why. (07)
> I personally am convinced that HOL in the form of type theory will
> eventually win out, but this is pretty much irrelevant to putting a
> stake in the ground with respect to achieving tech transfer. As you
> have stated start wherever you want, as long as where you start can be
given a formal semantics. (08)
I agree. But I would avoid using the term "win out" with respect to any
particular notation. (09)
As I said before, I believe that semantic systems need to support "anything
and everything". That would include the Semantic Web tools and many
different variations of graphic and linear notations. Then people with
different backgrounds can view the common semantics in their preferred
notations, and they can use notations that are tailored to their
requirements. (010)
John (011)
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