Re: [ontology-summit] System Components

[joseph simpson <jjs0sbw@xxxxxxxxx>]

It appears to me that there is a wide range of system types.

Many attributes, behaviors and characteristics could be used to begin the classification of systems into groups.

Without some basic agreement about the type of system under discussion, the information content of the messages in the discussion plummets.

In my view when a lack of system types is mixed in a discussion that includes concepts related to a system of systems, the rate of information decrease increases radically.

The opportunity for recursive application of these ill defined concepts drives the information content to near zero in very short order.

But it sure makes a neat "world cloud."

Have fun,

Joe

On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 2:14 PM, Jack Ring <jring7@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

May I suggest that in self-organizing or self-adaptive systems the system contains a model is 'itself' and exercises the model under 'what if' scenarios to foretell possible future configurations of the system. The developers of such systems, particularly those deep into prescient programming often get confused over which future system is which.

On Feb 2, 2012, at 2:57 PM, doug foxvog wrote:

> "Giancarlo Guizzardi" <gguizzardi@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> ...
>> Yes. Let´s take the prime minister of Italy
>
> I agree with the following analysis of the Prime Minister of Italy,
> until the last paragraph:
> :>Now, there seems to be yet another entity, the perspectile “Prime Minister
> :> of Italy” which is the concrete individual which is composed of all the
> :> qua entities of people which played that role. ...
>
> I'm not sure what use the modeling of such an entity would be -- but i
> accept that such a thing could be modeled.  I don't think it is a semantic
> concept that would be useful or that most people would consider --
> and those who tried to consider it would likely make logical fallacies.
> Would you expect them to come up with the right answer if asked
> the age of the "perspectile Prime Minister of Italy" (even if they knew
> what "perspectile" meant?
>
> -- doug
>
>> There is certainly the Role – Prime Minister of Italy characterized by a
>> number of commitments and claims and defined in a certain normative
>> description (the Italian Constitution). For me, this Role is a type (a
>> universal if you like which is repeatable and which can be predicated into
>> a number of individuals). Of course, this Role can itself change and have
>> its own type-properties (second order properties). For instance, maximum
>> number of years that one can instantiate (play) that role is a property of
>> the type (not of the individuals instantiating that role) and which can
>> change. These second order properties are of course not special of roles.
>> Take for instance the maximal life span as a property of the Species Lion
>> –
>> again, a property of the type, not of individual lions…Of course, all this
>> is not new…
>
>> Asides from the type, there is the person (in this case) instantiating
>> that
>> role, e.g., Berlusconi, which is an individual and, in my view, there is a
>> complex of instantiated properties (tropes, moments, modes) which
>> Berlusconi acquires by virtue of instantiating that role. The latter is
>> what I call a qua entity (Berlusconi-qua-prime-minister-of-Italy).
>> Alternatively, one can view Berlusconi-qua-prime-minister-of-Italy as an
>> aspectual slice of Berlusconi. Of course now that (fortunately IMO)
>> Berlusconi isn´t prime minister of Italy anymore, we have another
>> individual instantiating that role (Mario Monti) and we can have another
>> qua entity there as well.
>
>> Now, there seems to be yet another entity, the perspectile “Prime Minister
>> of Italy” which is the concrete individual which is composed of all the
>> qua
>> entities of people which played that role. Perhaps the reason for doing
>> that would be to avoid dealing with second order properties and still be
>> able to attribute properties to the “Prime Minister of Italy”. I am not
>> sure…(perhaps Nicola or Emmanuele can reply to this here).
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Giancarlo
>> ...
>
>
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-- 
Joe Simpson

Sent From My DROID!!
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