Can I pose a
dumb question (apologies if this was previously posed)?
How is “Conceptual” modeling different from any other form
of modeling? Doesn’t every model represent concepts?
Everything on this thread I’ve read so far reflects
activities I consider covered by any modeling methodology,
whether it be RUP, UMM, MDA etc.
Duane Nickull
“First things first, but not necessarily in that order” -
Dr. Who
On 3/4/11 9:26 AM, "Michael F Uschold" <uschold@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
William,
Do you mean:
" how would you
measure or evaluate the correctness of the model wrt the
stated goal [of
accurately reflecting the real world]?"
Michael
On Fri, Mar
4, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Burkett, William [USA] <burkett_william@xxxxxxx>
wrote:
>ONE:
conceptual modeling with a focus on modeling the real
world (say accounting, or photography) where
>the correctness of the model is measured more by how
accurately it reflects the real world.
Michael: Out of curiosity, how would you measure or
evaluate the correctness of the model wrt the stated
goal?
Bill
From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of uschold
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 5:41 PM
To: Ontology Summit 2011 discussion
Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] conceptual modeling
Despite Jacks objections, I support the thrust of what I
understand Azamat to be saying (which may be different
from what Jack understands him to be saying).
There is a difference between:
ONE: conceptual modeling with a focus on modeling the
real world (say accounting, or photography) where the
correctness of the model is measured more by how
accurately it reflects the real world.
TWO: designing a system that somehow makes use of this
conceptual model.
Consider data modeling. The theory goes you start with the
conceptual modeling, and after that you build the logical
model (a design artifact) and then the physical model (an
implementation artifact).
So in this sense, the conceptual modeling phase is very
different from the design phase.
Jack may have been objecting to something else -- for
example, I agree that when creating a conceptual model to
reflect the real world, there are still design decisions
to make.
Michael
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Jack Ring <jring7@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Apparently you are unaware of
Boeing 747
Fashion models
CRC card walk throughs during software design.
War gaming for comprehension of design tradeoffs
Model-based systems engineering (as contrasted to
specification-based)
etc., etc., etc.
Take your sentence, "Designing is more about (all those
gerunds) ..." and tell us "of what?"
When you precis that, you get models. if models come from
designing then how does modeling differ from design?
OBTW, I suggest that "...mental, ontological, scientific,
epistemological, semantic, logical, and mathematical, or
computational..." are not different types of models but
are different classes of models.
I would be interested in the criteria used for "different
stages of intellectual activities." My understanding of
how the brain works prevents me from presuming that any
given 200 milliseconds of activity can be cleanly
allocated to any one stage of activity. Although I will
acknowledge that anyone who has programmed in Fortran for
more than ten years comes close.
Jack
On Mar 3, 2011, at 12:56 PM, AzamatAbdoullaev wrote:
> J. Ring Wrote: "Conceptual modeling is also called
designing."
> NO, they are different stages of intellectual
activities, extended with
> implementation (production, construction,
manufacture) and operation. Note
> there are different types of conceptual modeling,
such as mental,
> ontological, scientific, epistemological, semantic,
logical, and
> mathematical, or computational. Modeling is close to
sciences, while design,
> to professions, see H. Simon, the Sciences of the
Artificial).
> Desiging is more about planning, devising, inventing,
formulating a plan,
> problem-solving and creativity and purpose. One
designs a new sales
> strategy, not modeling it. We say urban design,
product design, industrial
> design, graphic design, fashion design, architectural
design, but not
> models. Also, there are various design philosophies,
principles, approaches,
> methods, and applications. The design process is
closely associated with
> architecture, engineering, business, education, law,
and art, fine and
> applied. Last not least, one develops environmental
design, not sustainable
> conceptual modeling, basing on its principles, as
reuse, recycling, and
> renewability; clean materials; zero-carbon,
zero-waste; energy-efficiency;
> biomimicry; quality and durability.
> Azamat Abdoullaev
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jack Ring" <jring7@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Ontology Summit 2011 discussion" <ontology-summit@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 8:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] conceptual modeling
>
>
>> Obscure?
>> When the marketplace is buzzing with "making
innovation happen" why should
>> ontologists focus only on describing
archeological digs?
>> Conceptual modeling is also called designing.
>> Perhaps this highlights this group's obsession
with ontology whereas many
>> of the benefits come from the group therapy of
ontology development.
>>
>> The capability most lacking in society is
Foresight. If ontology
>> development and ontology based activities can
foster foresight then the
>> market size is tremendous.
>>
>>
>> .
>>
>> On Mar 3, 2011, at 11:08 AM, AzamatAbdoullaev
wrote:
>>
>>> Here is another sample of a formal and
obscure notion: "conceptual
>>> modeling". How the mentioned stakeholders,
(i) policy makers, (ii) budget
>>> holders, (iii) Technology Decision Makers
(CIOs and Architects), (iv)
>>> Implementers (engineers and developers), (v)
users/consumers of the
>>> technology, and (vi) educators, are supposed
to read it. What its scope,
>>> constraints, context, variety, and meanings
may be for each interested
>>> party, if it's about:
>>> 1. a model of concept, like AI conceptual
models,
>>> 2. a domain model/problem model, like the
UML's class diagram, describing
>>> its key concepts, attributes, and
relationships,
>>> 3. reality model, representing the real world
entities, properties, and
>>> relationships.
>>> Azamat
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nicola Guarino" <guarino@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: "Ontology Summit 2011 discussion" <ontology-summit@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 6:37 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] [OAF] [Case
studies]
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear Michaels,
>>>>
>>>> something which is missing from the OAF
picture on the community wiki
>>>> is
>>>> the use of ontologies for conceptual
modelling, and in general for
>>>> understanding a domain. This is clearly
mentioned in the paper cited
>>>> below
>>>> (and in many other places, of course),
and was also emerging from the
>>>> online discussion (which I am following
only sporadically, I admit...).
>>>>
>>>> Talking to you soon,
>>>>
>>>> Nicola
>>>>
>>>> P.S. I find the bullet on "Semantic
augmentation" a bit confusing, let's
>>>> think about how to improve it...
>>>>
>>>> On 3 Mar 2011, at 04:31, Michael F
Uschold wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Population of a Framework for
Understanding and Classifying Ontology
>>>>> Applications
>>>>>
>>>>> I remember this from way back,
someone took the ontology application
>>>>> framework Jasper and I created and
populated it. Might be worth
>>>>> skimming
>>>>> again for those interseted in the
case studies and the ontology
>>>>> application framework tracks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Abstract. A framework[1] recently
developed for understanding
>>>>> and classifying ontology applications
provides opportunities to
>>>>> review the state of the art, and to
provide guidelines for application
>>>>> developers from different
communities. The framework identifies
>>>>> four main categories of ontology
applications: neutral authoring,
>>>>> ontology as specification, common
access to information, and
>>>>> ontology-based search. Specific
scenarios are outlined for each
>>>>> category, and a number of features
have been identified to
>>>>> highlight the similarities and
differences between them. In this
>>>>> paper we populate the scenarios with
a number of prominent
>>>>> research and industrial applications
within diverse communities
>>>>> such as knowledge engineering,
heterogenous information systems
>>>>> integration, enterprise modelling,
Web based applications, and
>>>>> object-oriented distributed systems.
Population of the framework
>>>>> should allow different communities to
discover applications that
>>>>> fulfil specific purposes and
benefits, to discover what roles the
>>>>> ontology plays, who the principle
actors are and what they do, and
>>>>> what supporting technologies are used
for these applications.
>>>>> Potential application developers can
examine the descriptions in
>>>>> the populated framework to inspire
them to use different methods
>>>>> and technologies for their specific
applications.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Michael Uschold, PhD
>>>>> Senior Ontology Consultant, Semantic
Arts
>>>>> LinkedIn: http://tr.im/limfu
>>>>> Skype, Twitter: UscholdM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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