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William,
Do you mean: " how would you measure or evaluate the correctness of the model wrt the stated goal [of accurately reflecting the real world]?"
Michael
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Burkett, William [USA] <burkett_william@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>ONE: conceptual modeling with a focus on modeling the real world (say accounting, or photography) where
>the correctness of the model is measured more by how accurately it reflects the real world. Michael: Out of curiosity, how would you measure or evaluate the correctness of the model wrt the stated goal?
Bill
Despite Jacks objections, I support the thrust of what I understand Azamat to be saying (which may be different from what Jack understands him to be saying).
There is a difference between: ONE: conceptual modeling with a focus on modeling the real world (say accounting, or photography) where the correctness of the model is measured more by how accurately it reflects the real world.
TWO: designing a system that somehow makes use of this conceptual model. Consider data modeling. The theory goes you start with the conceptual modeling, and after that you build the logical model (a design artifact) and then the physical model (an implementation artifact).
So in this sense, the conceptual modeling phase is very different from the design phase. Jack may have been objecting to something else -- for example, I agree that when creating a conceptual model to reflect the real world, there are still design decisions to make.
Michael On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Jack Ring <jring7@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Apparently you are unaware of
Boeing 747
Fashion models
CRC card walk throughs during software design.
War gaming for comprehension of design tradeoffs
Model-based systems engineering (as contrasted to specification-based)
etc., etc., etc.
Take your sentence, "Designing is more about (all those gerunds) ..." and tell us "of what?"
When you precis that, you get models. if models come from designing then how does modeling differ from design?
OBTW, I suggest that "...mental, ontological, scientific, epistemological, semantic, logical, and mathematical, or computational..." are not different types of models but are different classes of models.
I would be interested in the criteria used for "different stages of intellectual activities." My understanding of how the brain works prevents me from presuming that any given 200 milliseconds of activity can be cleanly allocated to any one stage of activity. Although I will acknowledge that anyone who has programmed in Fortran for more than ten years comes close.
Jack
On Mar 3, 2011, at 12:56 PM, AzamatAbdoullaev wrote:
> J. Ring Wrote: "Conceptual modeling is also called designing."
> NO, they are different stages of intellectual activities, extended with
> implementation (production, construction, manufacture) and operation. Note
> there are different types of conceptual modeling, such as mental,
> ontological, scientific, epistemological, semantic, logical, and
> mathematical, or computational. Modeling is close to sciences, while design,
> to professions, see H. Simon, the Sciences of the Artificial).
> Desiging is more about planning, devising, inventing, formulating a plan,
> problem-solving and creativity and purpose. One designs a new sales
> strategy, not modeling it. We say urban design, product design, industrial
> design, graphic design, fashion design, architectural design, but not
> models. Also, there are various design philosophies, principles, approaches,
> methods, and applications. The design process is closely associated with
> architecture, engineering, business, education, law, and art, fine and
> applied. Last not least, one develops environmental design, not sustainable
> conceptual modeling, basing on its principles, as reuse, recycling, and
> renewability; clean materials; zero-carbon, zero-waste; energy-efficiency;
> biomimicry; quality and durability.
> Azamat Abdoullaev
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jack Ring" <jring7@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Ontology Summit 2011 discussion" <ontology-summit@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 8:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] conceptual modeling
>
>
>> Obscure?
>> When the marketplace is buzzing with "making innovation happen" why should
>> ontologists focus only on describing archeological digs?
>> Conceptual modeling is also called designing.
>> Perhaps this highlights this group's obsession with ontology whereas many
>> of the benefits come from the group therapy of ontology development.
>>
>> The capability most lacking in society is Foresight. If ontology
>> development and ontology based activities can foster foresight then the
>> market size is tremendous.
>>
>>
>> .
>>
>> On Mar 3, 2011, at 11:08 AM, AzamatAbdoullaev wrote:
>>
>>> Here is another sample of a formal and obscure notion: "conceptual
>>> modeling". How the mentioned stakeholders, (i) policy makers, (ii) budget
>>> holders, (iii) Technology Decision Makers (CIOs and Architects), (iv)
>>> Implementers (engineers and developers), (v) users/consumers of the
>>> technology, and (vi) educators, are supposed to read it. What its scope,
>>> constraints, context, variety, and meanings may be for each interested
>>> party, if it's about:
>>> 1. a model of concept, like AI conceptual models,
>>> 2. a domain model/problem model, like the UML's class diagram, describing
>>> its key concepts, attributes, and relationships,
>>> 3. reality model, representing the real world entities, properties, and
>>> relationships.
>>> Azamat
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nicola Guarino" <guarino@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: "Ontology Summit 2011 discussion" <ontology-summit@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 6:37 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] [OAF] [Case studies]
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear Michaels,
>>>>
>>>> something which is missing from the OAF picture on the community wiki
>>>> is
>>>> the use of ontologies for conceptual modelling, and in general for
>>>> understanding a domain. This is clearly mentioned in the paper cited
>>>> below
>>>> (and in many other places, of course), and was also emerging from the
>>>> online discussion (which I am following only sporadically, I admit...).
>>>>
>>>> Talking to you soon,
>>>>
>>>> Nicola
>>>>
>>>> P.S. I find the bullet on "Semantic augmentation" a bit confusing, let's
>>>> think about how to improve it...
>>>>
>>>> On 3 Mar 2011, at 04:31, Michael F Uschold wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Population of a Framework for Understanding and Classifying Ontology
>>>>> Applications
>>>>>
>>>>> I remember this from way back, someone took the ontology application
>>>>> framework Jasper and I created and populated it. Might be worth
>>>>> skimming
>>>>> again for those interseted in the case studies and the ontology
>>>>> application framework tracks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Abstract. A framework[1] recently developed for understanding
>>>>> and classifying ontology applications provides opportunities to
>>>>> review the state of the art, and to provide guidelines for application
>>>>> developers from different communities. The framework identifies
>>>>> four main categories of ontology applications: neutral authoring,
>>>>> ontology as specification, common access to information, and
>>>>> ontology-based search. Specific scenarios are outlined for each
>>>>> category, and a number of features have been identified to
>>>>> highlight the similarities and differences between them. In this
>>>>> paper we populate the scenarios with a number of prominent
>>>>> research and industrial applications within diverse communities
>>>>> such as knowledge engineering, heterogenous information systems
>>>>> integration, enterprise modelling, Web based applications, and
>>>>> object-oriented distributed systems. Population of the framework
>>>>> should allow different communities to discover applications that
>>>>> fulfil specific purposes and benefits, to discover what roles the
>>>>> ontology plays, who the principle actors are and what they do, and
>>>>> what supporting technologies are used for these applications.
>>>>> Potential application developers can examine the descriptions in
>>>>> the populated framework to inspire them to use different methods
>>>>> and technologies for their specific applications.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Michael Uschold, PhD
>>>>> Senior Ontology Consultant, Semantic Arts
>>>>> LinkedIn: http://tr.im/limfu
>>>>> Skype, Twitter: UscholdM
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
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>
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--
Michael Uschold, PhD
Senior Ontology Consultant, Semantic Arts
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