Re: [ontology-summit-advisors] Need your support - OntologySummit2013 So

[Chris Partridge <partridge.csj@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Leo,

I'm caught in the middle - vis a vis Pat's queries about  "Ontology development shares strong similarities with information systems development..." - if one is using ontologies in information systems development, one would expect a priori some link.

However, as I have been noting for a while the existing information systems development methodologies are light (in some cases non-existent - RUP springs to mind) in the areas in which ontologies (and epistemologies) could be applied.

Also there seems a trend in IS development to increasingly ignore the areas in which ontology might contribute to development and focus on the physical implementation issues.

So Pat's comment "We do not have enough experience with ontology design and deployment" seems right in the information systems area - and I'm not sure looking at Cyc (as Pat suggests) could really help, as this is not a typical information system - though maybe people will argue it is what will replace existing systems.

I would agree with you (Leo) that "an ontology lifecycle regimen is absolutely needed", the problem is what this should look like. And the whole issue of methodologies for legacy modernisation is a vexed one - there are next to none despite this being a growing requirement (for information systems rather than ontologies). As for "And it largely uses but expands on the software development cycle" this seems to me little disingenuous. In my experience, the easy option of feeding the ontology development into the software development cycle has been taken - and I suspect that questions about whether the whole process can be rationalised have not really been looked at.

Regards,

Chris

On 22 April 2013 23:08, Obrst, Leo J. <lobrst@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I’ll second this, since in long experience actually developing and deploying ontologies for command and control, business-to-business e-commerce, situational awareness, cyber/malware, etc., with many intended applications (often many simulaneously), an ontology lifecycle regimen is absolutely needed. And it largely uses but expands on the software development cycle, such as it is, i.e., is rooted also in software/systems engineering, as last year’s Ontology Summit tried to show.

 

Web ontologies are often lightweight and are often a hodge-podge, some with reasonable development, many not. However, the same Semantic Web technologies are being employed in intranets where the requirements are much more rigorous, and the ontology lifecycle has to be woven into operational software/systems engineering practices. Although high “best practices” for the ontology lifecycle is not generally codified explicitly as engineering practice, there are significant de facto best practices.

 

I think ontology lifecycle should explicitly figure into ontology evaluation. You’ll find that evaluation varies across the lifecycle. Ontology evaluation is not just a black box.

 

Thanks,

Leo

 

From: ontology-summit-advisors-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontology-summit-advisors-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Todd J Schneider
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 9:58 AM
To: OntologySummit2013 Advisory Committee; Pat Hayes
Cc: ontology-summit-advisors-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ontology-summit-advisors] Need your support - OntologySummit2013 Software Survey

 

Pat,

I'm one of those that have been pushing Amanda and Fabian
to represent more of the software and systems development
perspective and approach. The notion of lifecycle phases
is still alive and used.

More importantly than lifecycle phases is the need to show
the software and systems engineering communities and their
management that employing ontologies and semantic technologies
is not procedurally different that what is currently done
(i.e., it does not incur significant risks).

I also understand that the ontology community (and perhaps also
the semantic web community) may not be overly concerned with the
approach outlined in the communique, but I don't see evidence
that this community is closely involved in developing systems
that use ontologies. But I think they will benefit from it.

Finally, the communique supports the goal(s) of Ontolog to
promote the use of ontology.

Todd
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Pat Hayes ---04/21/2013 12:33:05 PM---On Apr 21, 2013, at 5:11 AM, Amanda Vizedom wrote: > Pat,

From: Pat Hayes <phayes@xxxxxxx>
To: OntologySummit2013 Advisory Committee <ontology-summit-advisors@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Amanda Vizedom <amanda.vizedom@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 04/21/2013 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: [ontology-summit-advisors] Need your support - OntologySummit2013 Software Survey
Sent by: ontology-summit-advisors-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

---

On Apr 21, 2013, at 5:11 AM, Amanda Vizedom wrote:

Pat,

Will you share with us the reasons for your non-support of this communique?

Hi Amanda

Sure. (I didn't want to pester you unless you asked :-) Several reasons. First, it is way too long and detailed, more of an essay than a communique. It is hard, I would suggest, for anyone to agree with all of it unequivocally. I feel like I want to nit-pick with the text all over the place. For example, this claim that ontologies must be "transparent to all intended users" (who might not be ontologists) seems to me to be ridiculously optimistic (or perhaps ridiculously restrictive, if it is interpreted as a design constraint)  and to be rooted in a naive idea that correctness of an ontology should be obvious to a domain expert.  But this is simply false. Just as one would not expect users of a program to find the code source obvious, one cannot expect users of an ontology to find the details of the ontology obvious. There may well be decisions taken in the design, the reasons for which are only apparent to professional ontologists (such as whether to use continuants in talking about time and change.)

I could go through the document nitpicking like this, but it seems pointless, because the entire enterprise is flawed. The fact is, this whole document is a mangerial fantasy. We do not have enough experience with ontology design and deployment to know what the objective standards of "quality" are, still less how to manage teams to achieve this nonexistent standard. We don't know what are the "activities that need to occur during the phases of a life cycle of an ontology", so to go on record with a detailed, confidently stated account which claims to be normative, is both inappropriate and harmful. As I say, this is pure fantasy, but it will be read by some as having an authority and will be used by managers (most of whom know absolutely nothing about ontologies) to impose work habits on other people for no good reason. For example, "Does the ontology follow best practices; in particular does it implement the upper ontology...." Whoa. Is it "best practice" to even HAVE an upper ontology? That is not clear. Most Web ontologies, for example, are not subsumed under any particular upper ontology. If out communique starts being used to justify managers asking ontologists to conform to an upper ontology, we will have done far more harm than good.

I found it very telling that after pages of vacuous managerial-theory babble about life cycles and "phases", most of it content-free (such as "The requirements development and analysis phase involves extending and clarifying initial information until the intended usage is sufficiently captured and understood to effectively guide technical decisions. This process involves an interplay of technical, business, and project-sponsor understanding. Adequate requirements development and analysis is critical to the success of any ontology development or usage."), and an absurd schematic diagram showing tangles of arrows connecting meaningless boxes, we read the almost plaintive remark "Generally, appreciation of the full life cycle of an ontology is not well established within the ontology community." Damn right. In other words, none of this is based in actual reality. It is written as though it comprised observations about the right way to work, but in fact, it is not based on observations about how the work is ACTUALLY done.

Another nit-pick, to end. Your second final observation begins: "Ontology development shares strong similarities with information systems development..." Does it, in fact? Is this based on actual observations? (Of which projects?) Or is this just an idea which the authors of this document feel *should* be true?
Again: "Although there is much research on ontology evaluation and many organizations use sophisticated ontology evaluation and quality management practices, awareness of this research, these practices, and their importance to successful use of ontologies is neither widespread nor sufficiently pooled to constituted an accessible body of knowledge." The claim that there is "much research" seems to me to be overly optimistic, to put it mildly; but the main point is, there is NOT widespread adoption of these practices. There may be very good reasons for this lack of uptake: the practices may be of limited utility, or of no real utility at all. In my experience, that is the most likely explanation.

My advice would be to completely toss this document aside, and start over not with some ready-made management-science theory about phases and work cycles, but try observing, if possible with a somewhat more humble attitude, how some large-scale ontologies were actually built. You might start with CYC, the granddaddy of all large-scale ontologies. You will find that the process bears almost no relationship to the fantasy you describe here.

Sorry, but you did ask.

Pat

I'm asking not to try to argue, but because we haven't had any input or feedback from you, and I value your insights generally.  We are still working to follow through on many of the suggestion and critiques offered so far. This follow-through may happen by substantal change to the communique or by clarification of its scope and, if possible and with summit community support, links to better and detailed references on issues that are out of scope, including other summit products. So, the request is not empty; if you will let us know the reason(s) for your discontent, we may be able to improve the communique by understanding them.

Best,
Amanda
On Apr 20, 2013 11:25 PM, "Pat Hayes" <phayes@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Peter and Mike, greetings.

On Apr 19, 2013, at 7:31 PM, Peter Yim wrote:

> Dear Ontology Summit Advisors,
>
> ...
> p.s. additionally, two very important reminders: *** Please Note ***
> ...
> 2. We are expecting to have the Communique ready by the time of the
> Symposium (no more wordsmithing of that document at the face-to-face
> this time) and, as advised earlier, we are expecting all Advisors to
> endorse the Communique (on an opt-out basis.)

Please opt me out of endorsing this Communique. If you would prefer, you may remove me from the Advisory Committee, in order to maintain an appearance of solidarity.

Best wishes

Pat Hayes


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