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Re: [ontolog-forum] master data vs. ontologies

To: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Bruce Schuman" <bruceschuman@xxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 11:24:38 -0800
Message-id: <001401d04c79$b4306a50$1c913ef0$@net>
This continues to be an intriguing conversation -- and I find myself
laughing, looking at the very excellent pdf at
http://www.jfsowa.com/talks/soup_llr.pdf    (01)

I grew up on this vision, and burned so much of this thinking into my soul.
Thank you for teaching me so much.    (02)

But I came into this learning experience with a top-down perspective and the
language of dimensionality.  And my revelation was stipulation -- and not
bottom-up empiricism.    (03)

So, this thing about "what is a chair" -- "one of the most common words in
the English language"    (04)

(laugh)    (05)

I don't need no freaking fuzzy logic to stipulate the boundary values that
create the abstract object "chair" -- as opposed to that other object
"not-chair" --    (06)

Just go boom.  Cut it like a diamond.  Announce to the world what you mean,
and if they ask, you further stipulate.  100% absolutely context-specific.    (07)

This ain't fuzzy.  It goes straight down the cascade to n decimal places in
some unit of measurement and all it takes is motivation.  Why do you need
that level of accuracy?    (08)

I know -- this the Holy War of The Scruffies and The Neats.    (09)

Really, the whole thing is just bottom-up versus top down.    (010)

So, today -- the Scruffies rule the world because the "Top" -- that curious
beyond-words object at the indefinable ultimate level in the taxonomy --
just has not yet proven cooperative in our efforts to neatly encapsulate it
in a box.    (011)

But the world is crunching this problem every day.  Complexity is just Too
Complex.  There is a massive hunger in the world for holistic integration.
The forces of globalization are driving the transformation of language and
conceptual form.    (012)

All these undue violations of Occam -- all these weird little
complexly-named sub-spaces squirming around inside one another.  At large
scale, where the world has to learn to collaborate with itself across
boundaries, it's grossly inefficient -- maybe even deadly.  The lightning of
the revolution is coming....    (013)

:)    (014)

So, of course, in the meantime -- heuristics rule the day.  After all, we
got to pay the mortgage.  Isn't that the proof of correctness the world
respects?    (015)

Well, yes -- until we have to work together to fix global warming....    (016)

Or maybe fix national health care...    (017)

And then -- watch the sparks of incommensurate dimensionality flying in
every direction...    (018)

*    (019)

Thanks for all of this.   Best respects to all, with appreciation --     (020)

Bruce Schuman 
NETWORK NATION: http://networknation.net 
FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/infinitehoop
 (805) 966-9515, PO Box 23346, Santa Barbara CA USA 93121    (021)

-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John F Sowa
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 9:54 AM
To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] master data vs. ontologies    (022)

Tom and David,    (023)

TJ
> And I don't want to use "knowledge base" in that "union" sense of the 
> term if there is already a well-established accepted use which differs 
> from that.
>
> Perhaps John can enlighten us.    (024)

Thanks for your trust in my opinion on this point.    (025)

But I agree with Wittgenstein about the open-ended variety of language games
that can be played with any vocabulary
-- even in fields as seemingly precise as mathematics and computer science.    (026)

For examples, look at the slides about knowledge soup (which is my term for
the human "knowledge base"):
http://www.jfsowa.com/talks/soup_llr.pdf    (027)

Slides 3 and 4 show the wide range of uses for the word 'chair'.
That's one of the most common words in English.    (028)

But look at slide 3 for 'number', which is the most fundamental word in
mathematics.  That slide adds the following observations:    (029)

> Concepts in science and mathematics grow and change.
>
> Consider the evolution in the basic terms of physics during the past 
> century:  mass, energy, force, momentum, space, time, gravity, light, 
> heat.
>
> Engineers often use different definitions of those terms for different 
> components of the same system.    (030)

Slides 8 and 9 generalize those observations and apply them to other areas,
including computer science.  Slide 18 cites related readings for more
detail.    (031)

DP
> MD may be...    (032)

Your lists of "language games" with 'MD' and 'MDM' are similar to my
examples for the words 'chair', 'number', etc.    (033)

Re Wikipedia:  Since it can be edited by anybody and everybody, I use it for
quick information.  But for anything important, I always do more digging.
For the word 'ontology', as used in DBs and KBs, their definition is not
bad:    (034)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology_%28information_science%29
> In computer science and information science, an ontology is a formal 
> naming and definition of the types, properties, and interrelationships 
> of the entities that really or fundamentally exist for a particular 
> domain of discourse.  It is thus a practical application of 
> philosophical ontology, with a taxonomy.    (035)

But the phrase "really or fundamentally exist for a particular domain of
discourse" is confusing and inaccurate.  I would replace it with "are
assumed to exist in a particular domain".    (036)

I'd raise similar issues about many of the other points in it.    (037)

John    (038)

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