Ed,
Very true - but that assumes you KNOW you will want to make a statement about
that triple (or set of triples) in the graph. It doesn't work in the general
case. Also, a zillion named graphs would blow up the infrastructures.
-Cory
(01)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Barkmeyer, Edward J
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 5:04 PM
> To: [ontolog-forum]
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Requesting Opinions on the Benefits of
> Predicates as Nodes
>
> Jack,
>
> We also manage assertions. This is one of the reasons why the RDF folk
> invented RDF Named Graphs -- a bucket of triples with an identifier.
>
> -Ed
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
> > bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jack Park
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 2:23 PM
> > To: [ontolog-forum]
> > Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Requesting Opinions on the Benefits of
> > Predicates as Nodes
> >
> > I'd like to mention one other 'modeling' situation:
> >
> > Consider this sentence:
> >
> > A majority of scientists believe that X causes Y.
> >
> > In that, we can see two triples, one of which is nested as object in the
>other.
> >
> > In my work, I grant identity to assertions. In simplest RDF, that
> > means granting an ID to a triple, which makes it a quad. But, since my
> > assertion (predicate instance) already has identity, nested triples
> > can be created directly.
> >
> > I'm not saying that's the only way to do such modeling; nested
> > conceptual graphs also make sense.
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Mark H Linehan <mhl@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> > > Jack describes here an important aspect of relationships that is not
> > > directly
> > captured in graphs that treat the predicates as edges: the attributes
> > associated with the relationships. Consider the triple {CompanyX
> > employs Person1} using a predicate called "employs". The triple
> > implicitly describes what an English speaker would conceptualize as an
> > "employment", with attributes such as "start date", "end date", a
> > location, etc. In RDF, you have to reify the relationship to
> > associate such attributes. In UML, you could use an association class for
> this. In SBVR, you can define an "employment"
> > concept (with its attributes) and say that every instance of "employs"
> > is an instance of "employment". These approaches are needed so they
> > can support queries such as "who is employed at xyz location", as well
> > as "what is the employment location of Person1").
> > >
> > > Making predicates into first-class components of a graph certainly
> > > helps
> > model the "objectification" aspects of relationships. Even more
> > important is to permit the predicates to relate more than just subject
> > and object, so as to directly associate the attributes.
> > >
> > > Mark H. Linehan
> > > www.linkedin.com/in/MarkHLinehan
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jack
> > > Park
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 12:21 PM
> > > To: [ontolog-forum]
> > > Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Requesting Opinions on the Benefits of
> > > Predicates as Nodes
> > >
> > > I see an additional benefit, but not necessarily affiliated with the
> > > way you
> > describe an 'implicit node' -- where a predicate appears, still, to be
> > a second- class citizen in the graph.
> > >
> > > Let me explain.
> > >
> > > Mostly, it would seem that a predicate in a triple performs the task
> > > of
> > linking subject and object; it has no other reason for being there
> > other than to complete the assertion, e.g. A relates to B.
> > >
> > > But, consider this: if a specific *instance* of a predicate exists
> > > as a
> > connective between two objects, then it can be said to carry the full
> > semantics of the assertion itself. The instance is not an 'implicit'
> > node: it is a vertex like any other in a graph.
> > >
> > > If I say: A cause B, then the node which is the 'cause' predicate
> > > can carry
> > the full semantics of the triple itself. It's not just your father's
> > predicate anymore; it's a first class citizen.
> > >
> > > Why do I care?
> > >
> > > Consider that said predicate has entails a possibly complex biography.
> > > Who discovered it? What evidence supports it? What debates are in
> > > play
> > about it?
> > >
> > > I can't assign or otherwise link that biography to either A or B,
> > > but only to
> > the specific predicate that ties them together.
> > >
> > > If I might add, I will assert that predicates as first class
> > > citizens is perhaps
> > the only difference between an RDF graph and a topic map.
> > > I've built topic maps with RDF using the BigData RDF store; they
> > > work just
> > fine, can import and export from, e.g. OWL documents, but with a loss
> > of information when the topic map becomes OWL.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Frank Guerino
> > <Frank.Guerino@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >> Hi All,
> > >>
> > >> For a number of years, we've been working with Data Driven
> > >> Synthesis as a means of rapidly generating Data Networks/Graphs and
> > >> the Knowledge Constructs (e.g. Library Catalogs, Indexes,
> > >> Taxonomies, Visualizations,
> > >> etc.) that help humans make easier & better sense of them (If
> > >> interested, see NOUNZ). Like many other Graph representations, we
> > >> use "triples" or "triplets" to help represent Semantic
> > >> Relationships, where descriptive Predicates are used as the binding
> > >> between Subject
> > Nodes and Object Nodes.
> > >>
> > >> To date, we've only treated Subjects and Objects as "Nodes" but
> > >> we've always known that we can (and have planned to) implement and
> > >> treat Predicates as a special type of "implicit" Node, as well.
> > >> (Time didn’t' allow us to get to doing so, until now.) We believe
> > >> that doing so grants users of Graphs certain benefits. We've
> > >> identified three (3)…
> > >>
> > >> #1: The first and obvious advantage is that users can now enter a
> > >> Graph from any Edge/Predicate as easily as they can enter from any
> > >> Node, and start to traverse the Graph based on that point of entry.
> > >>
> > >> #2: The second advantage of treating Predicates as Nodes is that a
> > >> Predicate can now be used as an "Index" or "Pointer" that allows
> > >> users to quickly find all Nodes which are tied to said Predicate
> > >> (or any Predicates that match certain traits). In other words,
> > >> it's a way of asking the Graph to quickly identify all Nodes that
> > >> are connected to a specific Edge/Link/Predicate (or any of a common
> > >> set of Predicate traits). This means that, in addition to being
> > >> able to ask "Node-oriented" questions of the Graph, you can now
> > >> also ask "Predicate/Edge-oriented" questions of the Graph, as well.
> > >> This leads to even more complex scenarios of being able to ask
> > >> questions of,
> > both, Nodes and Edges.
> > >>
> > >> #3: The third advantage (based on the second) is that traversal of
> > >> a Graph can be even quicker, leading to even shorter paths, because
> > >> instead of only traversing a Graph from Node-to-Node-to-Node,
> > >> through Nodes, users can now traverse from any Edge/Predicate to
> > >> any other Edge/Predicate, through Edges/Predicates.
> > >>
> > >> My question to the Community: Aside from the above three, do you
> > >> see any other benefits that we're missing?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for your help.
> > >>
> > >> My Best,
> > >>
> > >> Frank
> > >> --
> > >> Frank Guerino, Chairman
> > >> The International Foundation for Information Technology (IF4IT)
> > >> http://www.if4it.com
> > >> 1.908.294.5191 (M)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
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