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Re: [ontolog-forum] Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis

To: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Steven Ericsson-Zenith <steven@xxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 15:11:03 -0800
Message-id: <ED2B3FA8-9DDF-4A07-9697-88B2D9D591B7@xxxxxxx>

Dear Rich,    (01)

This is a valid point I think.     (02)

I assume that by "compression" here you mean "abbreviation." "Compression" is 
only effective if it is unambiguous - so in language design it is important to 
be able to formally transform the short form into an unambiguous form.    (03)

Regards,
Steven      (04)


On Feb 23, 2013, at 1:39 PM, "Rich Cooper" <rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:    (05)

> Since the primary topic of this forum is ontology, I found a very relevant 
>quote from Simon Spero’s link to SWH in Wikipedia:
>  
> The categories and types that we isolate from the world of phenomena we do 
>not find there because they stare every observer in the face; on the contrary, 
>the world is presented in a kaleidoscopic flux of impressions which has to be 
>organized by our minds—and this means largely by the linguistic systems in our 
>minds. We cut nature up, organize it into concepts, and ascribe significances 
>as we do, largely because we are parties to an agreement to organize it in 
>this way—an agreement that holds throughout our speech community and is 
>codified in the patterns of our language.
>  
> This seems related to the “engineering language” phenomenon noted by Steven 
>Ericsson-Zenith regarding such languages as Lisp and C, and how their user 
>communities differ. 
>  
> So the proper conclusion, IMHO, is that the “categories and types” that Sapir 
>noted as “staring each observer in the face” are subjected to the compression 
>effects of each language as practiced.  C emphasizes the procedural, but in 
>fact any declarative structure in Lisp can also be represented in C, though 
>less compactly.  So in C it is easier, and more compressed, to write 
>procedural code, while Lisp offers a more compact representation of 
>declarations, and a somewhat foggier representation of procedures. 
>  
> I suppose that early peoples would have placed a high value on compression of 
>language, since speech during a hunt would have risked losing the hunted 
>critter.  The emphasis of compressed structures would have had evolutionary 
>value, and hence would have affected the way we descended from the most 
>cost-effective speakers rather than from the more prosaically inclined. 
>  
> Personally, I prefer Delphi and Lisp to most others, such as Prolog or COBOL 
>or FORTRAN.  The elegance of my preferred two is what draws me; either Delphi 
>(with its elaborate component set) or Lisp (with its flowery expressiveness) 
>can support elegant programming. 
>  
> Elegant programming can support discussions of the correctness of the program 
>among programmers more easily than obfuscated programs in inelegant languages. 
> Since this form of language is important to us in modern usage, more 
>important than the deeper compression I suspect early peoples used, I prefer 
>it. 
>  
> -Rich
>  
> Sincerely,
> Rich Cooper
> EnglishLogicKernel.com
> Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
> 9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Simon Spero
> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 12:25 PM
> To: [ontolog-forum]
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis
>  
> http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/linguistics/#Who
>  
> 
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