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Re: [ontolog-forum] Truth

To: doug@xxxxxxxxxx
Cc: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Pat Hayes <phayes@xxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 01:26:56 -0500
Message-id: <0017AE29-8746-45A1-A9CA-14C648F89945@xxxxxxx>

On Jul 12, 2012, at 10:48 AM, doug foxvog wrote:    (01)

> On Wed, July 11, 2012 15:19, Matthew West wrote:
>> Dear Doug,
>> Pat has not picked this up, so I will take the liberty of answering for
>> him on this.    (02)

Thanks, Matthew.    (03)

> 
>>> Do the URIs  .../PresidentOfIreland and .../KingOfNorway refer
>>> to the same thing in every context?
>>> Or would you disallow such URIs for individuals?
> 
>> The PresidentOfIreleand and the KingOfNorway are individuals that at
>> different times are co-extensional with states of different people.
> 
> By "state of a person" do you mean temporal slice of that person's
> space-time worm?
> 
> I emphasized "individuals" to eliminate predicates.  I also wanted to
> exclude that these were roles.  I would want answers to questions
> such as
>   (PresidentOfIreland givenName ?NAME)
> 
>   (KingOfNorway ageInYears ?NUMBER)
> 
>   (and
>     (KingOfNorway parentOf ?PRINCESS)
>     (?PRINCESS givenName ?PNAME))
> 
> Would modeling these terms as states of a person allow the correct
> answers to be given for such queries that were correctly temporally
> constrained?    (04)

The key issue for using URIs in this way is not whether you think in 4-D or in 
3-D, but whether you want to use these URIs in a 'presentist' way or not. Do 
you want your URI for KingOfNorway to refer to the *present* King of Norway? 
And to change its denotation *when* a new king is crowned? So that its use as a 
referring name is temporally aligned with the facts *at the time the name is 
used* ? If so (as I suspect is the case) then you are using URIs in a way that 
is explicitly not recommended. Of course, this sort of thing is widely done, 
but it creates problems for Web use, and not just for the semantic web. It 
creates problems in RDBM use as well, by the way. In general, using names which 
are time-dependent in their meaning, and then storing the results for a time, 
and then re-using the data later at another time, is going to cause problems. 
One does not need a graduate degree in mathematics to understand why.     (05)

So in reply to your original question: yes, I would prohibit this kind of 
usage. Or at any rate, I would say that the problems you will have by using it 
are of your own making, by mis-using the machinery which the Web provides.     (06)

Pat    (07)

> 
>> They may also go through periods of non-existence.
> 
> Yes, I previously stated this.
> 
>> This is what you find when you draw the 4D map for them.
> 
> 
> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Matthew West
>> Information  Junction
>> Tel: +44 1489 880185
>> Mobile: +44 750 3385279
>> Skype: dr.matthew.west
>> matthew.west@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> http://www.informationjunction.co.uk/
>> http://www.matthew-west.org.uk/
>> 
>> This email originates from Information Junction Ltd. Registered in England
>> and Wales No. 6632177.
>> Registered office: 2 Brookside, Meadow Way, Letchworth Garden City,
>> Hertfordshire, SG6 3JE.
> 
> 
> 
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>     (08)

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