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Re: [ontolog-forum] [Fwd: War of the Ontological World - short article b

To: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Obrst, Leo J." <lobrst@xxxxxxxxx>
From: Pat Hayes <phayes@xxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 00:00:49 -0500
Message-id: <E986A76A-1D24-440B-BACB-F857618AC37B@xxxxxxx>
The neat/scruffy terminology was introduced in AI by Roger Schank, who 
considered himself a scruffy through and through. One of my proudest memories 
is of a conversation with Roger in which he told me that although I was (as we 
all knew) a neat, still I had a scruffy heart.     (01)

Pat Hayes    (02)


On Oct 25, 2011, at 6:11 PM, Obrst, Leo J. wrote:    (03)

> The division between Neats and Scruffies goes back in AI to at least the late 
>1970s-early 1980s and probably before. I remember fighting those 
>nomenclature/scientific stance wars in the mid-1980s. We tried to at one point 
>to clarify this as a distinction between rationalists and empiricists, and 
>made some traction. However, most of us working in ontologies these days are 
>both, with a predilection to one of those poles. I myself am a scruffy neat. 
>Oh wait 
>  
> Thanks,
> Leo
>  
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Paul Courtney
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 5:52 PM
> To: edbark@xxxxxxxx; [ontolog-forum]
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] [Fwd: War of the Ontological World - short 
>article by Andrey Rzhetsky]
>  
> I attended the SemTech conference this last June in San Francisco. This 
>conference is oriented toward business uses rather than academic ones and so 
>was mostly concerned about how to make ontologies work and not who had the 
>"best" ontology. This may have affected their division of the world into 
>"scruffies" and "neats" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neats_vs._scruffies) 
>with the "neats" being those who seek a more rigorous ontology that 
>incorporates provability and the "scruffies" being those who want to link data 
>and not worry about how best to represent reality in an ontology. In my 
>reading of the article, the Computer Code and Esperanto groups would be like 
>the scruffies and the Mathematicians would have an orientation like the neats. 
>This gets away from any focus on any one discipline as being allied with one 
>or another framework.
>  
> Paul
> 
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 4:42 PM, Ed Barkmeyer <edbark@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Denise Warzel sent this to an ISO group that has some passing relationship to 
>ontology work, and is struggling to understand the concept.  I thought the 
>Ontolog Forum might find it 'interesting'.  I certainly think there is 
>validity in the characterizations of the viewpoints, although I rather resent 
>the choices of group designations, being a mathematician who mostly supports 
>the 'computer code' viewpoint.
> 
> -Ed
> 
> -- 
> Edward J. Barkmeyer                        Email: edbark@xxxxxxxx
> National Institute of Standards & Technology
> Manufacturing Systems Integration Division
> 100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8263                Tel: +1 301-975-3528
> Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8263                Cel: +1 240-672-5800
> 
> "The opinions expressed above do not reflect consensus of NIST, and have not 
>been reviewed by any Government authority."
> 
> 
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject:        SC32WG2-INTEREST: War of the Ontological World - short 
>article by Andrey Rzhetsky
> Date:   Tue, 25 Oct 2011 08:38:24 -0400
> From:   Warzel, Denise (NIH/NCI) [E] <warzeld@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Reply-To:       sc32wg2-interest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
><sc32wg2-interest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To:     sc32wg2-interest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
><sc32wg2-interest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> 
> 
> 
> a paper that does a good job on identifying the different perspectives of 
>what is an Ontology and how should it be used...
> 
> 
> Denise Warzel
> JTC 1/SC 32/WG 2  Convenor (Data Management and Interchange, Metadata)
> warzeld@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> 303.722.9446 (Office)
> 303.777.1419 (Fax)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> --
> "Thirdly, the Code is more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules."
> 
> - Capt. Jack Sparrow of The Black Pearl
> 
> Paul Courtney
> 
> 
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