On Fri, August 26, 2011 11:34, AzamatAbdoullaev said:
> On Friday, August 26, 2011 6:03 PM, John wrote :
>> "don't want to detract from
>> the value of Doug's partial ontology. But it's important to explore the
>> broader issues about how we can relate those definitions to general
>> upper levels and to a wide range of lower-level concepts for specific
>> applications." (01)
> I fully support John.
> With my respect to Doug's effort, giving usually very interesting
> contribution, the least what we need is to "cyc" things here, like
> "interest - temporalstufftype; self-interest-temporalstufftype;
> agent-exisitng agenttype, etc.". (02)
The Cyc terms i used are fully defined and ontologized. I did not
include all their definitions and trace the superclass (#4genls)
hierarchy all the way back to cyc:Thing. That is work that is already
The Cyc terms mentioned above, TemporalStuffType and ExistingAgentType
are metaclasses; i.e., their instances are classes. An instance of
a class that is an instance of TemporalStuffType is (from a 3D+1
viewpoint) "all there" at any instance it exists. If a class is an
instance of TemporalObjectType, that means its instances have temporal
parts, and therefore at any given moment (from a 3D+1 viewpoint) is
only partly there. (04)
> Besides, its top ontology is too weak to haphazard. (05)
I was building on an existing ontology, selecting terms that were
needed for the purpose of the interest ontology. I would suggest
that not every ontology needs to re-invent a top-level. Ontologies
are designed to be reused. (06)
Many of the terms i defined are already defined in the Cyc ontology.
This includes most of the classes, and a few of the relations. (07)
> Briefly, we need just a sensible ontology of self-interest open
> to a wide public as well as machines. (08)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John F. Sowa" <sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 6:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Partial interest ontology
>> Doug, Rich, and Ron,
>> I'd like to add my thanks to Doug for actually doing something:
>>> This will take a (long) while to digest, but at
>>> first scan, it looks amazingly comprehensive.
>>> After all these years, an ontology in the Ontology Forum!!!
>>> Very impressive.
>> This kind of ontology is very useful as a mid-level ontology that
>> relates a large family of commonly used terms.
>> But I'd also like to emphasize Doug's adjective 'partial'. There
>> is more work to be done to relate this mid-level ontology to the
>> issues about upper and lower levels:
>> 1. Questions: What is interest? How does it relate to purpose,
>> goal, and intention? What about the adjective 'interesting'?
>> Is there a deeper connection than just the first 8 letters?
>> 2. Interest isn't a physical object, event, or state. In terms
>> of Peirce's semiotics, it is a kind of Mediation (Thirdness)
>> that brings two other things into relationship (e.g. an agent
>> and something that can help achieve the agent's goals). How
>> can we characterize and generalize that mediation?
>> 3. This thread began with issues about governments and politics,
>> A lot more work would be needed to relate Doug's definitions
>> to the questions about how a citizen's self interest is
>> related to government organization and functioning.
>> 4. As an example, the recent events in Libya brought out the
>> fact that Libyans and people in many other countries have
>> three levels of priorities: family first, tribe second,
>> and nation third.
>> 5. A tribe sounds like a "third world" kind of organization, but
>> people everywhere have a general category of "people like us",
>> which they may distinguish from other citizens of their country.
>> 6. Example: When the US Civil War broke out, General Robert E. Lee
>> was strongly opposed to breaking up the Union. But he felt that
>> he had a stronger duty to his tribe (Virginia) than to the nation.
>> Was that in his own self interest? He was undoubtedly strongly
>> conflicted, but how can we define the conflicting interests?
>> How does self interest extend to the family, tribe, or nation?
>> 7. In an earlier post, I discussed the range of biosemiotics from
>> bacteria up to humans in order to clarify how the issues affect
>> every level. For example, a bacterium would normally act in ways
>> that preserve its own integrity. But in a colony, the bacteria
>> at the boundaries may sacrifice themselves for the benefit of the
>> "family" or "tribe". How is that related to what General Lee or
>> any foot soldier would do? What is similar or different?
>> I don't want to detract from the value of Doug's partial ontology.
>> But it's important to explore the broader issues about how we can
>> relate those definitions to general upper levels and to a wide range
>> of lower-level concepts for specific applications.
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doug foxvog doug@xxxxxxxxxx http://ProgressiveAustin.org (011)
"I speak as an American to the leaders of my own nation. The great
initiative in this war is ours. The initiative to stop it must be ours."
- Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
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