>> I have always enjoyed James Taylor's music ->
>> different guy though! (01)
Hold on, didn't he say "I've seen sunny days that I thought would never
end"? (02)
Seriously though, surely this thread doesn't belong here now. (03)
Godfrey (04)
----- Original Message -----
From: "doug foxvog" <doug@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontology of Self Interest (05)
>
> On Wed, August 10, 2011 14:58, Rich Cooper said:
>> Dear Doug and John, et al,
>>
>> It appears that Roy Spencer is not the only one
>> who concluded that global warming isn't real.
>
> Of course not. The companies which benefit from the production of
> CO2 disbelieve in global warming, just as cigarette manufacturers
> disbelieve that smoking causes cancer. They both hire studies to
> prove their points and lobbyists to argue it. The companies do not
> wish to be regulated, since it is cheaper to have someone else clean
> up ones messes than to do it oneself. As big businesses have a political
> party to push their viewpoints, they encourage such a party to oppose
> regulation and to oppose the concept of anthropogenic climate disruption.
> Of course, the arguments against business regulation and the science
> studying climate disruption are not presented to the party's followers
> pay for destruction being caused by big businesses. They are presented
> as the regulators being evil, trying to prevent the common man from making
> money and trying to take money from the common man in order to give it to
> someone else. Scientists are portrayed as evilly misusing science in
> order to convince people of things that aren't true, evidently in order
> to be paid for conducting what really isn't research.
>
>> This is a cut and paste from NewsMax at
>>
>> http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/NASA-Global-Warmi
>> ng-Alarmists/2011/07/28/id/405200
>>
>> In an Op-Ed in Forbes, senior
>> fellow for environment policy at The Heartland
>> Institute
>
> The Heartland Institute is a libertarian political organization. Their
> website states, "Heartland's mission is to discover, develop, and promote
> free-market solutions to social and economic problems."
>
> Libertarians want as little government and government regulation as
> possible. They have a political interest in arguing against any
> proposition that problems exist that need governmental regulations
> to control them. It is not a scientific organization and one must
> take any scientific claims they make with a few teaspoons full of
> salt.
>
> The Heartland Institute seems to find it more in their self-interest
> to promote a libertarian society than to protect a world from a gradually
> increasing threat that will become worse over a span of decades and
> generations.
>
> The discussion below refers to the same article in Remote Sensing we that
> was mentioned before. As we recall, the article argued that various
> feedback mechanisms were not fully enough modeled by standard climate
> models. The article did not state, even though the author argued
> elsewhere, that anthropogenic global warming does not exist.
>
>> James M. Taylor, said, "In short, the
>> central premise of alarmist global warming theory
>> is that carbon dioxide emissions should be
>> directly and indirectly trapping a certain amount
>> of heat in the earth's atmosphere and preventing
>> it from escaping into space.
>>
>> "Real-world measurements, however,
>> show far less heat is being trapped in the earth's
>> atmosphere than the alarmist computer models
>> predict, and far more heat is escaping into space
>> that the alarmist computer models predict."
>>
>> The new research further shows
>> that not only is more energy released to space
>> than had been theorized, but also that the energy
>> is released at an earlier point in a cycle of
>> warming than previously documented.
>>
>> In fact, the new data reveal,
>> energy is discharged beginning at a point about
>> three months before a cycle peaks. "At the peak,"
>> Spencer said, "satellites show energy being lost
>> while climate models show energy still being
>> gained."
>>
>> The research was published in the
>> journal Remote Sensing.
>
> This is a reference to the same article we looked at before.
>
>> Does anyone have prejudicial info on the Heartland
>> Institute, or on James Taylor, or on the Remote
>> Sensing journal, which they would like to
>> contribute?
>>
>> I don't really want to get too into this GWA
>> debate; we all seem to have our preconceptions.
>> Its those preconceptions I would like to see
>> modeled in a self interest ontology.
>>
>> Why do we accept facts we want to believe in more
>> readily than facts we don't want to believe in (me
>> included, you too)? Can that be modeled? There
>> is some psychology work on how we preserve our own
>> value consistency by tending to believe what
>> supports our preconceptions - I remember John's
>> post on the "confirmation bias" in Behavioral
>> Sciences, or some such source. I also remember
>> some of us believed it as written and others
>> denied it as baseless speculation. Can that be
>> organized into said self interest ontology?
>
> Certainly.
>
>> I have always enjoyed James Taylor's music -
>
> Me, too.
>
>
> -- doug foxvog
>
>> different guy though!
>>
>> Interestedly,
>> -Rich
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Rich Cooper
>> EnglishLogicKernel.com
>> Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
>> 9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Rich Cooper
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 10:27 AM
>> To: '[ontolog-forum] '
>> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontology of Self
>> Interest was: intangibles
>>
>> Dear John,
>>
>> So is it your suggestion that people (like
>> bacteria) like to congregate together, and that is
>> one way in which we pursue self interest?
>>
>> How does that fit into the ontology of self
>> interest? We (and bonobos) seek out each other's
>> company, but why do we take aggressive action
>> against each other?
>>
>> And how does this consideration fit into an
>> ontology?
>>
>> Curiously,
>> -Rich
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Rich Cooper
>> EnglishLogicKernel.com
>> Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
>> 9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of John F. Sowa
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 8:32 AM
>> To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontology of Self
>> Interest was: intangibles
>>
>> On 8/10/2011 9:41 AM, Rich Cooper wrote:
>>> I personally think the ontology of self interest
>> is more important,
>>> more scientifically relevant to the issue of
>> ontology in general...
>>
>> That's a good topic. It gets into the broader
>> field of biosemiotics,
>> which includes zoosemiotics and phytosemiotics.
>>
>> If you recall, there was a novelist named Ayn Rand
>> who blathered
>> a lot about "self interest", but she was
>> hopelessly out of her
>> depth when it came to biology. She was a "one
>> factor" theorist
>> who claimed self-interest was the single most
>> important driving
>> force in evolution. But that hypothesis fails at
>> every level
>> from bacteria on up.
>>
>> You can start with just an individual bacterium.
>> It has sensors
>> and activators that enable it to swim upstream in
>> response to
>> a greater concentration of sugar on one side or an
>> irritating
>> chemical the other. But survival for lone
>> bacteria is not easy.
>>
>> Bacteria can also generate signals that enable
>> them to cooperate
>> with other bacteria. The simplest method is to
>> form a film-like
>> colony, such as plaque on the teeth. That is
>> their most important
>> defense. The easiest way to kill bacteria is to
>> prevent them
>> from forming colonies.
>>
>> The bacteria on the outside of the film benefit
>> from direct
>> access to food, but they succumb to attack from
>> chemicals,
>> other organisms, and extremes of heat and cold.
>> But they have
>> chemical signals that enable the colony to survive
>> and thrive:
>>
>> 1. When the outer bacteria detect danger, they
>> signal the
>> inner bacteria to transform themselves to
>> almost inert
>> spores. The outer bacteria die, but inner
>> ones survive.
>>
>> 2. For attacking large food sources (e.g., the
>> human body),
>> they need to wait until they have a
>> sufficiently large
>> "army" to survive counterattacks by the
>> immune system.
>>
>> 3. Many bacteria have a "voting" system: they
>> send out chemical
>> signals and use the strength of the responses
>> to estimate the
>> number of "soldiers". When the response is
>> strong, they switch
>> to attack mode. (Some drugs interfere with
>> those signals.)
>>
>> 4. Many species cooperate with other species in
>> "symbiosis".
>> Examples are lichens, which consist of algae
>> and fungi
>> cooperating to benefit both. Symbiosis
>> occurs between plants
>> and animals at all levels. Dogs and cats,
>> for example, became
>> human companions because they found mutually
>> beneficial ways
>> of cooperating with people.
>>
>> 5. The eukaryotic cells are an extreme example,
>> where early
>> bacteria (prokaryotic cells) were swallowed
>> by other bacteria
>> and found a comfortable, well protected niche
>> inside.
>>
>> 6. The metazoa (multi-celled animals) evolved
>> from colonies of
>> eukaryotic cells that formed "a more perfect
>> union" than just
>> a colony of independent units. But that
>> union required a
>> strong central "government" (called a brain),
>> which eventually
>> dominated the other cells completely -- to
>> their mutual benefit.
>>
>> Most species of plants and animals are unable to
>> survive without
>> a large colony of the same species and symbiotic
>> species. Just
>> look at what happened to the Yellowstone ecology
>> when they brought
>> back wolves. The overall health increased
>> enormously:
>>
>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/10/03102
>> 9064909.htm
>>
>> The Primates, our closest relatives, all live in
>> colonies, and
>> individuals outside a colony die off quickly. Our
>> two closest
>> cousins, the chimpanzees and bonobos illustrate
>> two extremes:
>>
>> 1. Chimps and bonobos interbreed easily, but
>> they have been
>> separated by the Congo River for a few
>> million years.
>>
>> 2. Chimps have a highly aggressive patriarchal
>> society, with
>> fierce fighting among the males for the top
>> spot. The birth
>> rate of males to females is approximately
>> 50-50, but the
>> percentage of adult males to females is about
>> 30-70, and
>> most males don't die of natural causes.
>>
>> 3. Bonobos have a matriarchal society, with a
>> laid-back,
>> make-love-not-war attitude. The birth rate
>> of males to
>> females is 50-50, and so is the adult rate.
>>
>> Biologists have studied the chemical and
>> physiological differences
>> between chimps and bonobos. And significantly,
>> the bonobos differ
>> from the chimps in the same way that dogs and
>> pussycats differ from
>> wolves and wildcats. In effect, the bonobos
>> "tamed" themselves.
>>
>> Interesting point: Human physiology is more
>> closely related to
>> the bonobos than the chimpanzees. Humans also
>> tamed themselves.
>>
>> John
>>
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>
> =============================================================
> doug foxvog doug@xxxxxxxxxx http://ProgressiveAustin.org
>
> "I speak as an American to the leaders of my own nation. The great
> initiative in this war is ours. The initiative to stop it must be ours."
> - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
> =============================================================
>
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