John, (01)
It looks like we agree about everything but ... (02)
JS> For example, purely extensional representations are useful for talking
about
> physical objects and processes, but they cannot deal with anything that
> involves intentionality. They cannot answer any question that begins with
> the word 'why'. They can't represent a goal, a promise, or a contract. (03)
Let's agree to disagree.
Firstly, the issue here we are discussing here is about abstract objects.
This is a well-established area of research in, for example, the philosophy
of mind where materialism is a common position. See e.g.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mental-causation/ - "Most philosophers
nowadays repudiate immaterial minds". So your claim "they cannot deal with
anything that involves intentionality" probably needs a little more
justification.
Secondly, people working with an extensional ontologies (extensional
representations?) have been modelling promises/contracts successfully for
decades. So again your claim needs a little more justification, particularly
as you seem to be suggesting that it is in principle impossible. (04)
> But one of the most dangerous philosophical diseases is to adopt an
> approach that works well for one kind of problem and try to apply it to
> everything -- the "only tool" syndrome. (05)
I am not sure who the target of this point is.
I thought I had made clear that my concern was at the ontological
architecture level. That we should make our architectural assumptions clear
and assess their pros and cons.
If someone wants to adopt an "only tool" syndrome approach (e.g. adopt
Peirce :-) ), then it should go through this kind of assessment. (06)
Chris (07)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John F. Sowa
> Sent: 12 July 2011 10:47
> To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] intangibles (was RE: Why most classifications
> are fuzzy)
>
> Chris,
>
> I have the highest regard for philosophy. But please remember that
> Wittgenstein's comments about philosopher's diseases was written for
> *professional* philosophers, who sometimes go off the deep end.
> They're not rejecting philosophy, but they choose an inadequate subset for
> their problem.
>
> > Ontology engineering needs to take what is useful from philosophy and
> > leave what it not. Taking it all indiscriminately may well result in
> > something similar to Wittgenstein's philosopher's disease, however
> > taking nothing will perpetuate the problems.
>
> I agree. But it's essential to recognize the dangers of using an
inadequate
> choice of philosophical method for a problem.
>
> > ... for data-intensive operational business systems. Normal people do
> > not manage to produce consistent data models for these - not even
> > experts do.
>
> I agree.
>
> But one of the most dangerous philosophical diseases is to adopt an
> approach that works well for one kind of problem and try to apply it to
> everything -- the "only tool" syndrome.
>
> For example, purely extensional representations are useful for talking
about
> physical objects and processes, but they cannot deal with anything that
> involves intentionality. They cannot answer any question that begins with
> the word 'why'. They can't represent a goal, a promise, or a contract.
>
> John
>
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