To: | ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx |
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From: | FERENC KOVACS <f.kovacs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> |
Date: | Fri, 24 Sep 2010 04:46:49 +0000 (GMT) |
Message-id: | <916610.96702.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> |
Rich,
So it is the enumeration of properties that your new infant begins to learn and apply to separate those primitive objects and situations into “a kind of” partitions.
Well, I am not well read in that subject, the latest I have on acquiring conceptual primitives by children is Dr Mandler's How to Make a Child, a lecture I discussed with John Bottoms in private mail. If you are interested I can share the points raised with you. I look at the "situation" differently.
I call Knowledge that is generated in the mind and body of living creatures by leaving marks or traces of what they have had as input and have used successfully to attain their goals, etc.So the question is how rich is ypur experience turning into knowledge, which is then translated into a language that can be shared, etc. There is always a point when you encounter with something you have not heard/seen, etc. before. In this situation you meet an object, which is aproduct of form and content, quality and quantity, and has the property of being generic and specific at the same time.
If you do not recognize something as known/familar, you do not know that in they way that you do not identify a form (pattern, a whole), instead, you may be able to recognize content, which is one or more properties.
Here I can join you, we nearly agree:
Rich: Later, seeing a new object or situation X which is somehow reminiscent to the infant of a previously encountered object or situation Y, the infant has the eureka moment of distinguishing X “is a” Y. You can further describe other iterative and recursive rational processes by which the primitive objects and situations are observed, classified, acted on experimentally, and by which theories can be formed in the infant’s emerging consciousness and memories. The crucial idea is to NOT start with classes, sets, or other constructions, which are not truly primitive. The infant perceives objects, and situations (relationships among collections of objects and situations) differently as she learns more and more about these mysterious realities.
FK Maybe.
Notice that I do not use concepts like partition, kind, type, etc. as they are not primitives to me. The primitives are still object, property and relation (associated with the dichotome facets above) and they are generated/produced by mental operations the proof for which is already available in dictionaries, lexicons, etc. But the problem is that the items in those collections (and in other repertories) are sorted morphologically (lexically, or alphabetically) on forms (names, objects) whereas we want a sort on content (properties) which are not available even as a cross reference!! Why? because the way such objecst (concepts included) are generated and thus related is not documented - see the debate on process vs structure. And behind that debate we have the problem of representing verbs (change, motion) in 2D, in a diagram, which by defintion is not fit for the job.
My best regards, ferenc _________________________________________________________________ Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/ Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/ Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/ Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/ To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (01) |
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