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Re: [ontolog-forum] semantic analysis was do not trust quantifiers

To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: FERENC KOVACS <f.kovacs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 03:47:37 +0000 (GMT)
Message-id: <518306.35448.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>


I would like to propose a different set of primitives; consider objects and situations as the ONLY primitives.

FK: How are they defined to start with? 

As I look at it the issue is similar to what you have with spacetime. In the beginning we perceive objects in space, no names, no details, etc. and we also notce movement (basicaly change). We learn what time is later, as time and force are not visible as concepts. Those three components are a PRODUCT. Check out Phyiscs

What we notice is change (movement geared to our level of resolution, speed of perception and length of retention in short-term memory where the sensations of movement leave their marks, just as in the accelerator of atomic particles in Switzerland) 

So the concept of spaetime is generated by perceiving movement (a property of an object) AND/OR perceiving movement as an object (and its property an object) in a relation betwen us (observer, object called subject) and the environment (object) by actively participating in the world wich you call a situation and which I call an object too - usually divided as your body (divided as body and soul, etc) in the environment (object to be defined as spacetime). And that relation is an Operation, which always have a result, a product, a consequence, etc.

(BTW: whoever informs you will transform you - Bela Hamvas)

You cannot define spacetime without the concept of motion and the object moving


V=s/t V=velocity, s=path in space and t=time

Obviously the perception of is specifi of the observer. Light speed (c) in vacuum 299,792,458 m/s. Time in this equation T=vs shows that the path an object covrs ion space is the same as time passing, and if they are even (1) the time stops for that object. Similarly if the speed of movement in change S patht=vt  is the same as time, then time is the same as space (path) T =Vs Now if you introduce the concept of Object, then since D exists both in time and space, then  O/T=O/S or existence (property)=O=ST

  Both objects and situations can be further subdivided into various axes of comparison.  Some have mass, some have energy, some have locality, some have whatever other properties you prefer to postulate.  

FK I believe you 

So it is the enumeration of properties that your new infant begins to learn and apply to separate those primitive objects and situations into “a kind of” partitions.  Later, seeing a new object or situation X which is somehow reminiscent to the infant of a previously encountered object or situation Y, the infant has the eureka moment of distinguishing X “is a” Y.  

FK We differ here, I am going to continue in a separate mail, not to cover too many things in one.

Thanky you very much in the mean time I remain

yours sincerely :-)




You can further describe other iterative and recursive rational processes by which the primitive objects and situations are observed, classified, acted on experimentally, and by which theories can be formed in the infant’s emerging consciousness and memories.  


The crucial idea is to NOT start with classes, sets, or other constructions, which are not truly primitive.  The infant perceives objects, and situations (relationships among collections of objects and situations) differently as she learns more and more about these mysterious realities.  






Rich Cooper


Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com

9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2

From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of FERENC KOVACS
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 1:57 PM
To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] semantic analysis was do not trust quantifiers



You refer to my quote from Wikipedia, of which I highlighted the following 

Main points: … add semantic information…associating variable and function references with their definitions…parsing … a complete parse tree, meaning that this phase logically follows the parsing phase,


While I agree with you on the points raised, it appears to me that the only useful information to find as far as the semantics (function) of the code is the source code, as opposed to all sorts of commentaries made in the history of the product life cycle.Even though, that wass not my point as you can see above. My point is that you want to analyze a program (in fact, any human artifact) semantically, which is an exercise involving the identification of definitions, interpreting semantic information as a structure with cross-references, etc.


The reason that UNL needs to be at the table is that global society is on a track of being totally dependent on software driven processess.

I believe you. But consider this:

Curiously enough, we have not managed to use even the simplest terms/paradigms of data processing in describing our models of the world (in thinking). Typically, there is a great hullaboo about databases and knowledge representation collections, including ontologies but nothing is modelled about their processing in the mind as an analogy to computer EDP, except from trying to read the mind by using invasive technology in neurology. It should not matter how data in mind are processed, we should look at it as a black box and be concerned with the output and the fact that only a part of the workings of the mind is done rationally and be influenced by will and reason. Typically, the news headings in the media today are undergoing a change and the naming conventions of passages and any lengths off texts in the internet seem to be downright crazy and intentionally ambiguous, because tension creatd by paradoxes is supposed to increase readership.




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