Doug -- (01)
I'd like to respond to just one of your points here, since it seems the
conversation has already moved on past this point. (02)
>Why? Every author of Java code uses the same meaning of "method" and
>other reserved words. Every HTML author uses the same meaning of <title>. (03)
There is a huge huge difference between Java and ontologies. Java, as a
programming language, is a closed semantic system. The meaning of the terms in
the Java language are precisely defined wrt the behavior of computing
machinery. (04)
Ontologies, on the other hand, do not describe the nature or behavior of the
closed-world of a computing machine. They describe the very-open real world
and we - people - choose the terms we use to describe the real world.
Therefore it's possible - imho - to assign a single and precise meaning to a
term. Unless, of course, you are the creator and sole user of that term. :-) (05)
Bill (06)
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of doug foxvog
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 2:19 PM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] (renamed) Terms with fixed/multiple meanings (07)
On Thu, September 9, 2010 12:03, Burkett, William [USA] said:
> John: I understand your point that a "term" in a formal language (e.g.,
> ontology) should have a single, unique definition - this allows automated
> processors to (soundly) do something with statements in the language. (08)
> It is important to point out, however, that this requirement addresses a
> very small set of users "out there in web-land" - less than 1% I would
> guess. (09)
Why? Every author of Java code uses the same meaning of "method" and
other reserved words. Every HTML author uses the same meaning of <title>. (010)
Of course, most people who run JAVA programs don't know a thing about JAVA,
nor do people who create web pages enter the HTML manually. They have
tools that compose the web pages for them. We similarly have to get to
the point that that people who enter data into the semantic web don't
need to know the details of the data encoding (or the ontologies!) just
as data enterers don't need to know the details of databases into which
they are entering data. (011)
> The "semantic web" will never materialize with this requirement
> because, simply, a very very large percentage of data-creators don't have
> the understanding and won't devote the time/rigor required to create these
> semantically precise statements. (012)
Thus we need data entry tools for them. They use data entry tools when
putting data into databases. Why should it be different for the Semantic
Web. (013)
Coders need to know about existing ontologies and the correct way to
reference them and determine the appropriate terms to use -- just as
JAVA coders or designers of webpage creation software need to know
the syntax of the languages that they use. (014)
> Most will create their schemas and
> ontologies and create their data using their natural language
> skills/capabilities/facilities - leading to multiple and evolving
> meanings. (015)
Here, you are partially referring to coders, but also referring
to the use of natural language. The two should be kept separate. (016)
Early on, programmers wrote the subroutines for doing the same
thing many times. But now, with huge libraries of methods,
skilled programmers know how to find and select the methods they
need for a specific purpose. Selecting a semantic term for a
specific purpose should be similar. (017)
> So, realistically, except for a very small population, "terms"
> that are used to name things in web-land *will* have multiple meanings. (018)
With appropriate tools, we'll move beyond this. Hand-written web pages
were initially full of bugs, so over the decades, they went out of style
as tools and standards for creating better ones became available. The
creation of such tools and standards would hopefully shorten this learning
curve for the Semantic Web. (019)
The creation of an Open Ontology Repository would do a lot to solve this
problem. Search tools for determining appropriate well-defined semantic
terms are needed. (020)
-- doug f (021)
> We can exclude those undisciplined cases and operate in our own small,
> rigorous, well-defined world - but how useful will that really be? (Like
> everything in AI, it seems, it'll be useful in special cases, but not in
> general.)
>
> As I write this, it brings the question of scope to my mind: in our
> discussions here are we ONLY interested in talking about formal ontologies
> with precisely-defined semantics that can soundly reasoned over, or are we
> talking about the "semantic web" (or "semantic enterprises") in general
> where, presumably, we can evolve to a point where processors can do
> something will all the data "out there in web-land"?
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John F. Sowa
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 4:04 PM
> To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Semantic Enterprise Architecture -
> Interoperability?
>
> David and Doug,
>
> DF>> a Semantic Web needs ontologies of terms with fixed meanings
>
> DE> Is this saying that a term (word, phrase, acronym, abbreviation,
>> whatever) can only have a single meaning?
>
> We must always distinguish the names of relations and instances
> in any formal language from the words in any natural language
> that is being mapped to that formal language.
>
> DF used the word 'term' for the symbols in some formal language.
> Those symbols should have unique definitions.
>
> DE was talking about the words used in some NL that is being
> mapped to the symbols of some formal language.
>
> The names used in the formalism should never be identified
> with the words in the NL -- even when their spelling happens
> to be similar.
>
> John
>
>
>
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> (022)
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doug foxvog doug@xxxxxxxxxx http://ProgressiveAustin.org (023)
"I speak as an American to the leaders of my own nation. The great
initiative in this war is ours. The initiative to stop it must be ours."
- Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
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