Re: [ontolog-forum] [OT] breaking list protocols

[Paola Di Maio <paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx>]

Mike,


. There is no place for emails about the agenda of this group, you either find it appropriate to your work or you don't.


agreed - i dont remember starting any such email or every saying anything to that effect
(but forgive me if I am wrong - as it is noted, email exchanges sometime are easy to mix up)


it looks like the conversation below is not 'appropriate' and  IS NOISE (as well as off the mark in many ways)
 
I am happy to discuss within the appropriate list protocol, ie offlist), 

 I am not the one making noise here, although I take my share of responsibility in contributing to the issue under discussion

so taking your commens  offlist, cc Peter if you like, would seem the right thing to do

Thanks in advance for not breaking the list protocol further, and not forcing me to do the same


PDM

Mike

Paola Di Maio wrote:

Peter, Matthew, Pavitra,

and those who have emailed :-)


Peter, you obviously like making me the center of your on list frustrations,
no worries, I am bold enough, and again sorry that discoursive posts, and honest
replies to thread, make you unconfortable

Pavitra, and others, thanks for making Peter note that his moderation style on this
occasion is a tad hysterical (lets try to see the humourous side of it?)

Mathew, you are right

My behaviour on this forum is based on the assumption that this is an open forum,
and not Peter Yims personal space - if thats the case, many things are explained
(including the narrow stance on some threads) -

But please look at my posts, what exactly is it that I say to cause such
an irrational escalade? I asked others (offlist) to tell me what exactly did I say
that warrants such vile attacks, and nobody came back with anything

I do however exert my (human) right to freedom of speech and opinion
on this list, as well as anywhere else

It says this is an open community, etc etc, this changes everything!
(i was wondering why the forum has had the same convener in all these years... )

On the other hand, look at how this escalated

Peter picked some out of context portions of my post (from an otherwise interesting thread)
and pointed at them as inappropriate

I, and others, have pointed out that yes, we need less noise, but picking

out on one person/snippets may not be correct

peter leashed out on me on list (not offlist )

I merely defend myself against personal attacks,


Anway I am thoroughly bored with this now

Peter, please do take your insults against me offlist would you?

I will resist your onlist provocations from now on, but after I meet my deadline
a private duel is in order, your choice of weapons

PDM

On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Matthew West <dr.matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:dr.matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

   Dear Colleagues,

   
   I think it is very easy to find yourself behaving inappropriately
   in this forum, and that is because it can look like an entirely
   open and public space, which really it is not. Let me try to draw
   an analogy on how I see things.

   
   Acceptable behaviour varies depending on where you are. When you    are in your own home you can do very nearly what you  like. Murder
   would still be frowned on, but you can certainly say what you like
   as often and as loud as you like, and if I am visiting you I have
   no right to complain, but I am free to leave.

   
   In a public space what you can say will depend on where you are.
   In the US you can probably still say what you like, in the UK at
   least if you say it too loudly you might be charged with
   disturbing the peace. In Iran you might have to be altogether more
   careful.

   
   When you visit someone else’s home it is a different matter. If
   you have been invited to a party and the host thinks you are
   making too much noise, he may ask you to quieten down. If you do
   not, he may ask you to leave. They are within their rights to do so.

   
   The Ontolog Forum is really a room in Peter’s home. The door is
   open, on it there is a sign that says “Computational Ontology
   Discussion Room” and there is an open invitation, it has glass
   walls so anyone can see what is going on inside. It can look very
   like a public space, but actually it isn’t.

   
   Many of us forget this from time to time, either going off topic,
   or being overly sharp in our responses. When Peter reminds us that
   we have strayed, we should remember that it is his house and we
   are his guests.

   
   Regards

   
   Matthew West                          
   Information  Junction

   Tel: +44 560 302 3685

   Mobile: +44 750 3385279

   matthew.west@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

   <mailto:matthew.west@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

   http://www.informationjunction.co.uk/

   http://www.matthew-west.org.uk/

   
   This email originates from Information Junction Ltd. Registered in
   England and Wales No. 6632177.

   Registered office: 2 Brookside, Meadow Way, Letchworth Garden
   City, Hertfordshire, SG6 3JE.

   
   
   
   *From:* ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
   <mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
   [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
   <mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>] *On Behalf Of
   *Pavithra
   *Sent:* 30 January 2010 11:00
   *To:* paoladimaio10@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

   <mailto:paoladimaio10@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; [ontolog-forum]

   *Cc:* [ontolog-forum]
   *Subject:* Re: [ontolog-forum] [OT] Paola di Maio fiasco [was -
   Re: Knowledge, Options and Institutions]

   
   Steve Ray,

   Since you are the Chair, please ask Peter to accept her "apology"
   and be graceful.

   What is the harassment policy on this forum?  
   This forum should be not be used for personal attacks or to
   humiliate anyone!
   ( Please note that I have referred this email to Steve Ray and not
   to Peter and I do not expect a reply from Peter on this either).

   Regards,
   Pavithra

   --- On *Fri, 1/29/10, Peter Yim /<peter.yim@xxxxxxxxx

   <mailto:peter.yim@xxxxxxxxx>>/* wrote:


   From: Peter Yim <peter.yim@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:peter.yim@xxxxxxxxx>>

   Subject: [ontolog-forum] [OT] Paola di Maio fiasco [was - Re:
   Knowledge, Options and Institutions]

   To: paoladimaio10@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:paoladimaio10@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

   Cc: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

   <mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>

   Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 11:37 PM

   Paola,

   > [PdM]  I apologise for sharing a link without
   commenting/annotation to
   > make its relevance more explicit

   [ppy]  don't apologize, but instead, please allow us to get back in
   focus, and run a high quality, high signal-to-noise collaborative
   environment by heeding some of my earlier suggestions (e.g. the
   statements that I started with "Please: ..." under:
   http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/2010-01/msg00207.html#nid07
   ).

   > [PdM]  Whats the best way for ontolog community members of
   sharing/pointing
   > to a knowledge resources if not posting them to list?

   [ppy]  that would depend on what one would like to share. If it is
   relevant to the list, share it on the list. If it belongs more to a
   social network setting, share it on facebook, linkedin, ... etc. ...
   Ref. that book you were posting about, I trust you have done some
   further reading, and maybe after the first 20 pages, you might already
   have discovered that this is more relevant to, say, "Knowledge
   Management," "Knowledge Economy" or even "Technology and Society" than
   to "practical issues and strategies associated with the development
   and application of ontologies," then you should find the more
   appropriate community to share your insight (*after* you have gain
   some insight) with the relevant community. On your post, your cited:
   "Rating:  (not yet rated) 0 with reviews - Be the first" ... so, there
   you go!  ... Amazon.com carries this book too, and has only one review
   so far. You can try there too, it has communities built around various
   subject matters, and can definitely offer you a much larger audience
   than here.


   > [PdM]  I did not have the time to write up a commentary
   yesterday,  and
   > wanted to capture the reference as I was on it and before it got
   lost ...

   [ppy]  Try keeping a notebook (paper of electronic), start a blog, ...
   do something else, don't do it at the expense of the entire Ontolog
   community, please. ... Maybe the majority of us don't like to hear you
   "think out loud" and that is causing much of the tension, and Ontolog
   is losing highly respected members of the ontology community because
   of it. Can't you see that I am fighting you because you are hurting
   this community (and not because of "mind control" or whatever you
   suspect i am doing)?


   > [PdM]  Collaborative knowledge creation starts with sharing
   resources...

   [ppy]  sure ... but you should be mindful that Ontolog Forum has a
   mission. As an extreme example, sharing cooking recipes with a
   community would foster "collaborative knowledge creation" and result
   in better cooking for many (I'm certain,) but it would be totally
   inappropriate here.


   PAOLA ... you are a very smart woman, actually too smart for me to
   know how to handle, as the convener of this forum. If you are asking
   simple questions like the ones above, and cannot respect even very
   straight forward requests, it is either:

   (a)  you genuinely don't know better ... which I don't think is
   the case,
   (b)  you think it's funny ... which I doubt; the rest of the
   community probably doesn't think this is amusing either,
   (c)  you feel you have a right to do whatever you like here, at the
   expense of everyone else, and you have no respect for the hosting this
   party, or
   (d)  you are being disruptive ... and if that is truly the case, you
   had better leave the party.

   While you enjoy being the center of attention. Personally, I just want
   to quietly support a community of practice that wants to move the
   Ontolog Charter forward; therefore, please don't try to make me repeat
   my position over and over again. The only sure way to get to be the
   center of attention in this community is to be *really* good
   ontologist. Being rowdy will just get you kicked out.

   Please take note: being a part of this community is a privilege (that
   goes for *everyone* in the community), not a right!


   Regards.  =ppy

   Peter Yim
   Co-convener, ONTOLOG
   --


   On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 4:37 AM, Paola Di Maio
   <paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx

   <http://mc/compose?to=paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
   >
   > Mr Peter
   >
   > I apologise for sharing a link without commenting/annotation to
   make its
   > relevance more explicit
   >
   > Whats the best way for ontolog community members of
   sharing/pointing to a
   > knowledge resources if not posting them to list?
   >
   >  I did not have the time to write up a commentary yesterday,    and wanted to
   > capture the reference as I was on it and before it got lost
   > to the sea of references, others may be able to comment  in the
   meantime, i
   > ll get back to it later (maybe two years )
   >
   > Collaborative knowledge creation starts with sharing resources...
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > PDM


   > On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 6:51 PM, Peter Yim <peter.yim@xxxxxxxxx

   <http://mc/compose?to=peter.yim@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
   >> Ms. Paola,
   >>
   >>
   >> Ontolog is neither a book club, nor a social network. It is
   possible
   >> that this is a great book (although making that conclusion after 20
   >> pages for an almost 400 page book may seem a little premature) but
   >> that is *not relevant* ... the way you brought it up, and how
   far it
   >> is removed from our chartered discussion, just makes you post
   "noise'
   >> rather than "signal."
   >>
   >> Can't you detect the similarity in the way you made this post with
   >> example (A) in my earlier request (ref.
   >>
   http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/2010-01/msg00207.html#nid07
   >> ), a M.O. which I was imploring the community to try to avoid,
   so we
   >> can improve on the signal-to-noise ratio on this forum?
   >>
   >> I am certain this will be of interest to some people, and is a very
   >> appropriate post in a different setting ... so, *please*, take
   this,
   >> and other similar conversation of yours elsewhere.
   >>
   >>
   >> Thanks in advance.  =ppy
   >>
   >> Peter Yim
   >> Co-convener, ONTOLOG
   >> --


   >> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 2:09 PM, Paola Di Maio

   <paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx <http://mc/compose?to=paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx>>

   >> wrote:
   >> >
   >> > <label: to be read in the context of other forum posts>
   >> >
   >> > I am reading pages 19-20 of this great book online, and
   although I do
   >> > not have the time to offer any sensible commentary at the
   moment, I thought
   >> > I would share
   >> >
   >> > some of you may enjoy reading the commentary that pertains to
   some of
   >> > the threads under discussion
   >> >
   >> > PDM
   >> >
   >> > Knowledge, options, and institutions
   >> >
   >> > Author: Bruce Mitchel Kogut
   >> > Publisher: Oxford ; New York : Oxford University Press, 2008.
   >> > Edition/Format: Book : EnglishView all editions and formats
   >> > Rating:
   >> >
   >> > (not yet rated) 0 with reviews - Be the first.
   >> >
   >> > insane uris for online version (auch)
   >> >
   >> >
   >> >
   http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=d5Ba6MsLWGcC&lpg=PP1&ots=tkzAGzQFOK&dq=Knowledge%20and%20the%20speed%20of%20the%20transfer%20and%20imitation%20of%20organizational%20capabilities%3A%20an%20empirical%20test&pg=PA19#v=onepage&q=Knowledge%20and%20the%20speed%20of%20the%20transfer%20and%20imitation%20of%20organizational%20capabilities:%20an%20empirical%20test&f=false
   <http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=d5Ba6MsLWGcC&lpg=PP1&ots=tkzAGzQFOK&dq=Knowledge%20and%20the%20speed%20of%20the%20transfer%20and%20imitation%20of%20organizational%20capabilities%3A%20an%20empirical%20test&pg=PA19#v=onepage&q=Knowledge%20and%20the%20speed%20of%20the%20transfer%20and%20imitation%20of%20organizational%20capabilities:%20an%20empirical%20test&f=false>
   >> >
   >> > <iframe frameborder="0" scrolling="no" style="border:0px"
   >> >
   src="" href="http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=d5Ba6MsLWGcC&lpg=PP1&ots=tkzAGzQFOK&dq=Knowledge%20and%20the%20speed%20of%20the%20transfer%20and%20imitation%20of%20organizational%20capabilities%3A%20an%20empirical%20test&pg=PA19&output=embed" target="_blank">http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=d5Ba6MsLWGcC&lpg=PP1&ots=tkzAGzQFOK&dq=Knowledge%20and%20the%20speed%20of%20the%20transfer%20and%20imitation%20of%20organizational%20capabilities%3A%20an%20empirical%20test&pg=PA19&output=embed
   <http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=d5Ba6MsLWGcC&lpg=PP1&ots=tkzAGzQFOK&dq=Knowledge%20and%20the%20speed%20of%20the%20transfer%20and%20imitation%20of%20organizational%20capabilities%3A%20an%20empirical%20test&pg=PA19&output=embed>"
   >> > width=500 height=500></iframe>
   >> >
   >> >
   >> >
   >> >
   >> >
   >> >
   >> >
   >> > --
   >> > Paola Di Maio
   >> > **************************************************
   >> > “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you
   everywhere.”
   >> > Albert Einstein
   >> > **************************************************

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--
Paola Di Maio
**************************************************
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert Einstein
**************************************************

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--
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-- 
Paola Di Maio
**************************************************
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert Einstein
**************************************************

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