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Re: [ontolog-forum] Set of Semantic Primitives (was Guo's blah blah blah

To: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Patrick Cassidy" <pat@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 01:04:55 -0400
Message-id: <009c01c9e1ad$56c9d730$045d8590$@com>
Chris,
  The arguments I have seen thus far are against any *one* particular style
of representation in an FO being adopted by everyone.  I agree that that is
unlikely.  But I have not seen any substantive arguments against the
possibility of a FO able to translate among many different styles of
representation, and able to represent an unlimited number of complex
concepts as combinations of the basic elements.  That is the goal of my FO
proposal. I have seen gut skepticism, but you will agree that that is not an
"argument".      (01)

I keep running into the utterly irrelevant argument that there is no *one*
perfect FO.  I agree, and that is not the point I am making.  I am making a
point that a properly structured FO can get wide enough agreement to sustain
a scientific community of researchers who will adopt it as their standard
for representing meanings, and who will investigate its utility in practical
applications.  But to get that off the ground, I think that substantial
funding to develop that community is needed.    (02)

If you know of any technical arguments against such an FO, I will be quite
interested to know what they are.  I haven't seen any.  Pay Hayes said that
he doubted (gut skepticism) that an FO would be widely adopted, not that it
would be technically inadequate for its task of translation among many
domain ontologies.    (03)

I think my gut is as good as anyone else's.  I am impressed by technical
arguments.    (04)

Pat    (05)

Patrick Cassidy
MICRA, Inc.
908-561-3416
cell: 908-565-4053
cassidy@xxxxxxxxx    (06)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christopher Menzel
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:08 AM
> To: [ontolog-forum]
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Set of Semantic Primitives (was Guo's blah
> blah blah)
> 
> On May 30, 2009, at 8:49 PM, Patrick Cassidy wrote:
> > Just one point in response to Ian:
> >
> >> On May 30, 2009, at 3:28 PM, Ian Bailey wrote:
> >>> Hi All,
> >>> . . .
> >>
> >>> So, I think the idea of one set of primitives to rule them all is
> >>> impractical at least, and probably impossible. Based just on the
> >>> range of opinion on ontolog alone, you can bloody well forget it.
> >
> > The audience for an FO containing all the primitives that are needed
> > for semantic interoperability includes all of the database
> > developers who now are building their own idiosyncratic conceptual
> > models and could just as easily (more easily) use a well-established
> > and well-tested set of primitive conceptual elements to specify the
> > meanings of their domain data elements. This potential audience is
> > vastly larger than the ontolog forum, but needs publicly testable
> > examples of use before they will pay any attention.
> >
> > I am suggesting that we actually investigate the issue with a proper
> > test rather than simply assume it is impossible and congratulate
> > each other on our ignorance.
> 
> Pat,
> 
> By my lights people with years of theoretical and practical experience
> in AI and ontological engineering have given *arguments* against the
> feasibility of a single FO.  These arguments might prove unsound, but
> surely they amount to a great deal more than an uncritical, self-
> congratulatory *assumption* that an FO is impossible.
> 
> -chris
> 
> 
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>     (07)


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