Rick
Agree with two points you made, namely
1. things and reference to things - just for analogy - akin to compilers in
computer assembly language and pointers to addresses.
2. our understanding of semantics today is not sufficiently
Mature - my input is that we need to work and at least at community or
vertical practice levels to find or construct vocabularies with accompanying
natural language description (as unambiguous as is practical), to enrich
semantics and may be even use the web behavior history to illustrate how
collaborations have or have not helped us enrich the semantics. Also multi
cultural and multiple languages meanings might further enrich the current
semantics. (01)
In this connection I have enjoyed previous discussions on -language and
meaning and -meaning and understanding, etc. (02)
Thanks.
Ravi
(Dr. Ravi Sharma)
313 204 1740 Mobile
drravisharma@xxxxxxxxx (03)
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rick Murphy
Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 2:35 PM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Cc: Semantic Web; Jonathan Rees
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] implementation issues for ontology URIs (right
forum?) (04)
Alan Ruttenberg wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 8:46 PM, Pat Hayes <phayes@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>> On Oct 4, 2008, at 2:46 AM, paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
>>
>>> Cool thanks
>>>
>>> it renders well in firefox without extension
>>> but I am not sure understand how one uri can be viewed both as rdf
>>> source and html
>> It is resolved by 'content negotiation', a similar technique used for
>> example to decide which language version you get of a multi-language-
>> edition newspaper. To regard these editions as a single resource is
>> considered good Web practice according to the W3C Architectural
>> guidelines, but the extension of this to the HTML/RDF distinction is
>> currently more controversial. So this might be good practice,
>> depending on how the current debates about RDF and content negotiation
>> finally settle out. In the meantime one should probably treat it as
>> provisionally good practice, or maybe experimental good practice.
>
> Ahem.
>
> There is not a whiff of content negotiation, which I don't like
> because it makes it confusing to figure out what resource the URI
> names. I do not consider using content negotiation good practice, even
> provisionally. (05)
Content negotiation can be an effective practice given a model theoretic
semantics based on pragmaticism. Given that we can't constrain behavior
on the web, the key point is to align model theory and practice. I
certainly defer to Pat on this issue, but I believe the recent
developments in linked data, specifically the introduction of
information and non-information resources, imply a need to update the
current RDF model theory to reflect a vocabulary that differentiates
things, things in the world and references to things in the world.
Pragamticism and content negotiation could come later, like after semiotics. (06)
> The specific series of events that happens when the browser does a get
> of http://purl.obofoundry.org/obo/OBI_0000225 (07)
snip ... (08)
> For those that might think that this looks like a lot of traffic to
> generate the page, I'll remind that there are a variety of ways that
> this same information can be retrieved much more efficiently, for
> example the whole OBI OWL file
> (http://purl.obofoundry.org/obo/obi.owl), or as a query against the
> Neurocommons triple store at http://sparql.neurocommons.org/ . (09)
Information and non-information resources can be effectively
differentiated without network traffic. Would you mind explaining how
you believe the introduction of network traffic better differentiate
information and non-information resources ? (010)
> For the
> single dereference of a citable name, we consider it more important
> that we try as best possible to not confuse what the URI denotes, and
> to have systems in place that reduce as much as possible the chance
> that there be incentive to give another name (URI) for the same
> entity. (011)
So how does network traffic clarify what the URI denotes ? (012)
You seem to be saying that linked data implies a disincentive for
introducing new representations, but this requires that consumers of
representations standardize their interpretation. (013)
I'm a congregationalist which I guess is a bit left of Unitarian these
days. I suggest our understanding of semantics today is not sufficiently
mature to introduce disincentives into web architecture in an attempt to
achieve the web's goals. (014)
> -Alan
>
>
>
>> Pat
>>
>>>
>>> or do we have more than one uri for the same resource? if so, is that
>>> legal/good practice?
>>>
>>> thanks
>>>
>>> PDM
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 12:35 AM, Alan Ruttenberg
>>> <alanruttenberg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> Whoops, typo: That should be:
http://purl.obofoundry.org/obo/OBI_0000225
>>>> Thanks for noticing!
>>>> Note that if you view source, you will see RDF rather than HTML. The
>>>> HTML is browser only, generated by a stylesheet instruction.
>>>> -Alan
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 3:19 AM, <paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> - http://purl.obofoundry.org/obo/OBO_0000225 - an example of what
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> think should be a typical response for an ontology term
>>>>> Alan, when click on that url with firefox i get redirected to
>>>>> http://www.berkeleybop.org/ontologies/OBO_0000225
>>>>>
>>>>> and see 'object not found'
>>>>> is this the response to be expecting, or suggesting should be
>>>>> expected?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --PDM (015)
Best Wishes,
Rick (016)
blog: http://phaneron.rickmurphy.org
web: http://www.rickmurphy.org
phone: 703.201.9129 (017)
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