Hi Ron
I think your comments/questions are on the mark.
I don't know enough to say what the answers are. (01)
Dick McCullough
Ayn Rand do speak od mKR done;
mKE do enhance od Real Intelligence done;
knowledge := man do identify od existent done;
knowledge haspart proposition list;
http://mKRmKE.org/ (02)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Wheeler" <rwheeler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Thing and Class (03)
> Are we sure that we do not have 2 different things with the same name.
>
> part is_described_by design
> part is_instance_of design
>
> sound like they refer to tangible things that I might be able to pick up
> and install into an assembly or final product
>
> part is_part_of design
>
> sounds like a completely different type of thing. This appears to be a
> sub-design incorporated into a description of a thing. Not tangible
> except in the written (or drawn) form of the concept. Before the first
> drawing is drawn this part exists in the mind of the inventor.
>
>
> piece is_described_by design
> piece is_instance_of design
>
> are these equivalent to
>
> part is_described_by design
> part is_instance_of design
>
> or am I completely misunderstanding the concept here?
>
> The overloading of the English language is not helpful.
>
> Ron
>
> Richard H. McCullough wrote:
>> Hi Antoinette
>>
>>
>> I'm just using a triple-style notation -- subject predicate object
>> I should have written the statements like this
>>
>> part is_described_by design
>> part is_instance_of design
>> part is_part_of design
>>
>> Dick McCullough
>> Ayn Rand do speak od mKR done;
>> mKE do enhance od Real Intelligence done;
>> knowledge := man do identify od existent done;
>> knowledge haspart proposition list;
>> http://mKRmKE.org/
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Antoinette Arsic" <aarsic@xxxxxxxx>
>> To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 4:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Thing and Class
>>
>>
>>
>>> Richard,
>>>
>>> What in the heck are you talking about? I'm just learning CL and FOL;
>>> other notations like owl, RDF/S, Dewey, Marc, DC, Mods, METS I am
>>> familiar
>>> with. I do this done. Someone do enlighten me done. I do speak thanks
>>> done. ;)
>>>
>>> SGIS
>>> Antoinette Arsic
>>> Sr. Systems Engineer
>>> 8618 Westwood Center Drive, Suite 100
>>> Vienna, VA 22182
>>> 703-506-8621
>>> 443-567-2703
>>> aarsic@xxxxxxxx
>>> www.SGIS.com
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Richard H.
>>> McCullough [rhm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 6:23 AM
>>> To: [ontolog-forum]
>>> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Thing and Class
>>>
>>> Sean & Dan
>>>
>>> It is hard for me to understand what this discussion is about.
>>> When I see things like
>>> part is described by design
>>> and
>>> part is instance of design
>>> I wonder if you are missing the whole concept of
>>> part is part of design
>>> i.e., the part-whole relation.
>>>
>>> In Sean's last email, time dependence is mentioned,
>>> and I wonder -- are you now talking about a
>>> part-whole relation which is time-varying?
>>>
>>> Dick McCullough
>>> Ayn Rand do speak od mKR done;
>>> mKE do enhance od Real Intelligence done;
>>> knowledge := man do identify od existent done;
>>> knowledge haspart proposition list;
>>> http://mKRmKE.org/
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Sean Barker" <sean.barker@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 12:25 AM
>>> Subject: [ontolog-forum] Fw: Fw: Thing and Class
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dan,
>>>>
>>>> While I would agree that, say, the CAD model for a part
>>>> describes the shape of a part, the issue is not one of design but of
>>>> configuration management. In particular, the criterion for being a part
>>>> A123 is that it is fit, form and function identical to the "typical
>>>> part" A123. The design is an "ontological commitment" that some class
>>>> of
>>>> thing exists (will exist). To reject this is to reject the concept of
>>>> "is-a" and of labelling things with the concepts they instantiate.
>>>>
>>>> Conversely, penguins do not stop being penguins just because some has
>>>> sequenced their DNA (written down their design).
>>>>
>>>> The fact that engineering systems are concerned with coming-to-be and
>>>> ceasing-to-be suggests that
>>>> engineering ontologies must use a temporal logic. In fact, many
>>>> engineering
>>>> systems
>>>> are based on effectivities and change notices. The first explicitly
>>>> identifies what components
>>>> make up a product at a particular time or at a point in the product
>>>> run,
>>>> while th second
>>>> controls when the definitions are changed.
>>>>
>>>> Sean Barker
>>>> BAE SYSTEMS - Advanced Technology CentreBristol, UK
>>>>
>>>> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dan Corwin
>>>> Sent: 01 September 2008 19:46
>>>> To: [ontolog-forum]
>>>> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Fw: Thing and Class
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *** WARNING ***
>>>>
>>>> This mail has originated outside your organization, either from an
>>>> external partner or the Global Internet.
>>>> Keep this in mind if you answer this message.
>>>>
>>>> No magic here, just typical abstract and concrete objects.
>>>>
>>>> Sean Barker wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 2) The product of a design office is designs, instances of the general
>>>>>
>>>>> mathom "design". In the DO, any class/type structure applied to a set
>>>>> of designs is a generalization of the set of design instances -
>>>>> designs are
>>>>> not classes for anything.
>>>>>
>>>> A "design" is surely an object in the world of information.
>>>> It describes something, which you portray below as concrete.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The product of a manufacturing organization is parts, each of
>>>>> which is an instance of a design.
>>>>>
>>>> Wrong. Each "part" may be based on the "design", but their
>>>> relation is described/describes, not instance/class.
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>> Dan Corwin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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> (04)
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