Dear Sean, (01)
> Considered from a legal point of view, a person and a role such
> as employee should surely be treated through a
> role-relationship, rather
> than a subtype relationship, since one's capacity to act depends on
> one's status. (02)
MW: I'm not quite sure what you mean by a role relationship, but you
are right that the relationship is not subtype/supertype. (03)
> I have no right to marry in virtue of being an employee,
> but I can marry as a person. Conversely, I can authorize a
> design in my
> role as a project manager (a subtype of employee), but not I cannot do
> it in virtue of being a person, since the company process applies to
> employees of the company, not to persons in general. I may also have
> rights both as a person and an employee (e.g. my manager may not shoot
> me, both as an obligation under common law, and because of the
> anti-bullying policy). (04)
MW: This is roughly right. The intentional act of authorizing someone to
play a role confers rights and responsibilities. (05)
> The distinction is not one of time, (06)
MW: There is at least the time distinction that comes from when the role
is authorized, and to when authorization is removed. (07)
> and I do not slice between
> one and another, (08)
MW: But we do. Sometimes we act with one role and sometimes with another.
We even talk about changing the hats that we are wearing. (09)
Regards (010)
Matthew West
Reference Data Architecture and Standards Manager
Shell International Petroleum Company Limited
Registered in England and Wales
Registered number: 621148
Registered office: Shell Centre, London SE1 7NA, United Kingdom (011)
Tel: +44 20 7934 4490 Mobile: +44 7796 336538
Email: matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx
http://www.shell.com
http://www.matthew-west.org.uk/ (012)
> although then role-relation may be qualified, e.g. by
> my start date and required retirement date.
>
>
> Sean Barker
> BAE SYSTEMS - Advanced Technology Centre
> Bristol, UK
> +44(0) 117 302 8184
>
> BAE Systems (Operations) Limited
> Registered Office: Warwick House, PO Box 87, Farnborough Aerospace
> Centre, Farnborough, Hants, GU14 6YU, UK
> Registered in England & Wales No: 1996687
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> > Patrick Cassidy
> > Sent: 19 March 2008 09:36
> > To: '[ontolog-forum] '
> > Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontology similarity and accurate
> > communication
> >
> >
> > *** WARNING ***
> >
> > This mail has originated outside your organization, either
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> > Keep this in mind if you answer this message.
> >
> > Matthew,
> > If one were to attempt to create instances of a 3D Person
> > that were also instances of a role, the multiplicity you
> > refer to would be a problem. In the illustration below,
> > Matthew is an instance of 3D Person, not an instance of
> > Employee - if Matthew were an instance of Employee, the
> > problem you describe would then present itself. But we can
> > create instances of Role such as an Employee that have a
> > Person as a filler. Nevertheless the *Role* "Employee" is
> > also a subtype of Person, therefore an instance of an
> > Employee is always an instance of a Person, implicitly though
> > not explicitly. But the instances of a Role such as Employee
> > are more like time slices and are not identical to the
> > instance of Person that fills the role. The multiplicity is
> > in the multiplicity of TimeSlices, as there are in a 4D
> > representation; every different TimeSlice is a different
> > entity. The way that can work is illustrated below using OWL.
> > One comment I made was not phrased properly:
> > [PC] > > (3) a person can be an instance of multiple roles
> > in any given
> > time
> > > > interval
> > It would more accurately have been phrased that:
> > (3a) an instance of Person can fill multiple roles in any
> > given time frame
> > (3b) a timeslice of Person can be an instance of multiple roles
> > (3c) an instance of Role in any given time interval can be
> > an instance of Person - because Person and Role are not disjoint.
> > The illustration below should clarify what that means.
> >
> > Perhaps the non-intuitive element is that an instance of a Role (a
> > TimeSLice) can also be an instance of a Person(a
> > dimension-neutral Type) - because the type Person is not
> > disjoint with the type TimeSlice. In the illustration below,
> > Matthew is a Person, but the instance
> > MatthewAsEmployeeOfShellAndLeeds is a Role - and also an
> > instance of Person
> > - but is not identical to Matthew. It is more like a
> > TimeSlice of Matthew.
> > Even So, Matthew is not necessarily 3D or 4D, Matthew is a
> > dimension-neutral entity.
> > If one were to use a formalism that permitted relation
> > arities higher than two, it would be possible to specify
> > roles and their time limits without using time slices.
> > TimeSlices (among which are Roles) are syntactically
> > convenient when using OWL, they aren't logically necessary.
> > They have the same logical effect as an explicit time-indexed
> > assertion on a dimension-neutral entity. In that case, there
> > would be no TimeSlices, only time-indexed assertions (which
> > are logically equivalent, after translation, to assertions on
> > TimeSlices). The axioms to translate the two formalisms are
> > not here because this is a pure OWL representation.
> >
> > All instance of Role should have start and end times
> > specified - they are time slices.
> > Person is in this case neither exclusively 3D nor 4D - time
> > slices can be generated by making a person an instance of
> > 'TimeSlice', or an instance of Role, which is a subtype of
> > TimeSlice. Every TimeSlice has a start time and end time.
> > But an instance of Person can also have attributes and
> > relations specified by explicit time-indexed relations,
> > without using TimeSlices.
> >
> > In the following note that an Employee is a Role, and
> > something can be an instance of an Object as well as a Role.
> > (definitions - some parts are from Cyc - are abbreviated).
> >
> > HumanRole is a subtype of Person and Role
> > Every HumanRole is a Role whose RoleFiller is a Person
> > (restriction)
> > PersonWithOccupation is a subtype of HumanRole
> >
> > <owl:Class rdf:ID="Employee">
> > <rdfs:comment>A Person who was employed by another
> > Agent in some hiring event.</rdfs:comment>
> > <rdf:type rdf:resource="#PersonType"/>
> > <rdf:type rdf:resource="#RoleType"/>
> > <rdfs:subClassOf
> rdf:resource="#TemporaryRoleCreatedByEvent"/>
> > <rdfs:subClassOf rdf:resource="#PersonWithOccupation"/>
> > <rdfs:subClassOf>
> > <owl:Restriction>
> > <owl:onProperty>
> > <owl:ObjectProperty rdf:about="#isEmployedBy"/>
> > </owl:onProperty>
> > <owl:someValuesFrom rdf:resource="#IntelligentAgent"/>
> > </owl:Restriction>
> > </rdfs:subClassOf>
> > </owl:Class>
> >
> > **** NOTE that 'employee' is a subtype of 'Person' ****
> >
> > <owl:Class rdf:ID="EmployeeOfShell">
> > <rdfs:subClassOf rdf:resource="#Employee "/>
> > <rdfs:comment>A person who is an employee of
> Shell.</rdfs:comment>
> > </owl:Class>
> >
> > <owl:Class rdf:ID="EmployeeOfLeeds">
> > <rdfs:subClassOf rdf:resource="#Employee "/>
> > <rdfs:comment>A person who is an employee of
> Leeds.</rdfs:comment>
> > </owl:Class>
> >
> > <!-- Matthew is employee of Shell from 1990 to 2008
> > Matthew is employee of Leeds from 1980 to 2004
> > -->
> >
> > <Person rdf:ID="Matthew"/>
> >
> > <EmployeeOfShell rdf:ID="MatthewAsEmployeeOfLeedsAndShell">
> > <rdf:type rdf:resource="#EmployeeOfLeeds"/>
> > <hasRoleFiller rdf:resource="#Matthew"/>
> > <rdfs:comment>Matthew is an Employee of Both Shell
> > and Leeds from the beginning of
> > 1990 to the end of 2004.</rdfs:comment>
> > <hasStartingTimePoint rdf:ID="DTEG19900101T0000"/>
> > <hasEndingTimePoint rdf:ID="DTEG20041212T2400"/>
> > </EmployeeOfShell >
> >
> > Pat
> >
> > Patrick Cassidy
> > MICRA, Inc.
> > 908-561-3416
> > cell: 908-565-4053
> > cassidy@xxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontolog-forum-
> > > bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 2:42 PM
> > > To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontology similarity and accurate
> > > communication
> > >
> > > Dear Pat,
> > >
> > > > This is a good issue, but I think it has a resolution
> > without the
> > > > problem you envision, because in 3D the types of an entity can
> > > > change with time.
> > > >
> > > > (1) employee is a role, which means that it must be
> > time indexed.
> > > > (2) every instance of employee (in some time interval) is an
> > > > instance of person (in that time interval)
> > > > (3) a person can be an instance of multiple roles in
> any given
> > > > time interval
> > > > (4) in some time interval Matthew can be an instance of
> > "Employee
> > > of
> > > > Shell" and "Employee of Leeds U"
> > >
> > > MW: What you are missing is that EACH instance of employee
> > MUST be a
> > > separate person if employee is a subtype of person. To
> put that the
> > > other way round, if I am just one person and there is an employee
> > > subtype of person, then I either am or am not an instance
> > of employee,
> > > but I can only be an instance of employee once.
> > >
> > > MW: If you think that a Person can be more than one
> > employee, then the
> > > relationship between person and employee is something other than
> > > subtype/supertype.
> > >
> > > MW: If I were a 3D-ist then I would suggest somthing like a
> > consists
> > > of relation.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > In 4D, I believe that the 4D worms will intersect,
> and that is
> > > > another way of viewing the same thing, but it is only
> > inconsistent
> > > > if one assigns the same type "Person" to a 4d object in
> > one ontology
> > > > and a 3D object in the other, and then tries to use the
> > same term to
> > > > represent the two different types.
> > >
> > > MW: In 4D it is quite clear, and employee is a state of a
> > person, and
> > > the relationship between person and employee is temporal part of.
> > > Both employee and person are subtypes of state_of_person.
> > >
> > > MW: The interesting thing about temporal part of is that most
> > > properties are inherited by substates (except for example being a
> > > person for the whole of their life).
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Matthew West
> > > Reference Data Architecture and Standards Manager Shell
> > International
> > > Petroleum Company Limited Registered in England and Wales
> > Registered
> > > number: 621148 Registered office: Shell Centre, London SE1
> > 7NA, United
> > > Kingdom
> > >
> > > Tel: +44 20 7934 4490 Mobile: +44 7796 336538
> > > Email: matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx
> > > http://www.shell.com
> > > http://www.matthew-west.org.uk/
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I need to be more specific. Another day or two for my more
> > > > detailed reply to PatH.
> > > >
> > > > Pat
> > > >
> > > > Patrick Cassidy
> > > > MICRA, Inc.
> > > > 908-561-3416
> > > > cell: 908-565-4053
> > > > cassidy@xxxxxxxxx
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > [mailto:ontolog-forum- bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> > > > > matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 5:18 AM
> > > > > To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontology similarity and accurate
> > > > > communication
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear John,
> > > > >
> > > > > > MW> So for example, there are ontologies where you will
> > > > find employee
> > > > > > > as a subtype of person, and others that understand
> > it is not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know which way you are advocating, but I'll
> > summarize my
> > > > > > position:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. There is a fundamental distinction between natural
> > > > types, such
> > > > > > as Cat or HumanBeing, and role types, such as Pet or
> > > > Employee.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. Every instance of a role type is a subytpe of some
> > > > natural type,
> > > > > > but it may also be a subtype of other role types.
> > > > > > HeartSpecialist
> > > > > > is a subtype of Physician, which is a subtype of
> > HumanBeing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > MW: I do mean that employee is not a subtype of person
> > (or human
> > > > > being).
> > > > >
> > > > > MW: If we remind ourselves of what being a subtype means,
> > > > it means that
> > > > > each instance of a subtype is an instance of the supertype.
> > > > Now ler us
> > > > > look at an example. I am an employee of both Shell and Leeds
> > > > > University.
> > > > > I have different employee numbers, very different
> salaries, and
> > > > > different start dates. Now if employee is a subtype of
> > person then
> > > > > each of these is a person, i.e. there are two of me.
> > > > >
> > > > > MW: This kind of situation is true of roles
> generally, you can
> > > > > play multiple roles at the same time and the same
> role multiple
> > > > > times (and at the same time). These do not all generate
> > new people.
> > > > >
> > > > > MW: So the question is: what is the relationship
> between a role
> > > > > and the person who plays is. Fortunately, as a
> > > > 4-dimensionalist, there
> > > > > is a simple answer. The role is a temporal part of the
> > person that
> > > > > plays the role, or if you prefer, the person for a period of
> > > > > time, rather than for the whole of their life.
> > > > >
> > > > > MW: This is not so different from the question of the
> > vase and the
> > > > > piece of clay. Are pots subtypes of clay? Or is the pot a
> > > > > different object than the piece of clay it is made from?
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > >
> > > > > Matthew West
> > > > > Reference Data Architecture and Standards Manager Shell
> > > > > International Petroleum Company Limited Registered in
> > England and
> > > > > Wales Registered number: 621148 Registered office:
> > Shell Centre,
> > > > > London SE1 7NA, United Kingdom
> > > > >
> > > > > Tel: +44 20 7934 4490 Mobile: +44 7796 336538
> > > > > Email: matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > http://www.shell.com
> > > > > http://www.matthew-west.org.uk/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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